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	Subtopic	Started By	Posts
	Archive through Dec 06, 2001 Last Post: Dec 07, 2001, 10:04 pm		10

Posted By: Eleica Dec 06, 2001 - 08:38 am

No problem. Yes, the plot twist thing generally holds true for almost every RPG, actually. FF9 was beautiful (and I love the song at the end). I'm just wondering if quests are always necessary in Fantasy ... while you could surely make for an amazing story with many of those twists, what about a story that centred around a single place?

Oh dear, I just got inspired. ( Not good ... I have an exam this afternoon.)

Posted By: Krastakin Dec 06, 2001 - 02:19 pm

gotta love living in NZ and being on summer vacation

Yes that's true Eleica...and one of the most annoying things about Final Fantasy 7 and 8 is that you tend to go back and forth over the map to different places, so you kind of need to know the world...and where everything is. Hmm...I don't see how it would be Final Fantasy without it, but I don't think that all fantasy/sci fi revolves around quests. More often than not, it's when a person is searching for themselves that they quest.

Posted By: Khael Dec 06, 2001 - 02:56 pm

Hey elicia, Know exactly what you mean! This summer, I was talking about my writing to this girl i know. And then she said..."whats with all the traveling?" And i'm like, "well you know, fantasy, traveling, they sorta go together..." and shes like, "Why? Why not have a story that takes place in like one town, or even one building?" "Your Crazy, thats a stupid idea...umm i gotta go home and...um...do...stuff..." *as khael runs home to write down "his" newest idea*

Yah it was an awsome idea to...but i didn't do it very well....

Posted By: Ajelina Dec 07, 2001 - 08:48 pm

Hi guys, long time no type... joys of living in Australia for 6 mths, but anyway...

It's only now that I've got loads of free time that I can find out just how many recycled plots there are, each with a supposedly-different- twist-but-is-in-fact-nearly-identical, and yes, it does get unbelievably boring. But I don't think any of it's deliberate. There's a book around called "The Myth of the Magus", and in the beginning it lists 10 factors that a mage/magician and so on tends to possess. My own little mage has nine out of the ten. Scary, huh? If you can find it, have a look through; it's shaped my way of thinking around the idea that there is a certain basis to fantasy and sci-fi and so forth, leading to the clichés that readers agree with and buy. My thoughts done for now, the board is open again...

Posted By: Krastakin Dec 07, 2001 - 10:04 pm

hmmm that might be an idea!

Welcome back Ajelina!!!!!!!!!!!! I was wondering where you went to

Posted By: Adamis Nov 16, 2003 - 11:44 am

The cliche's in fanatasy stories are based around traditions of the formula of the genre.

Epic fantasy has to have: an epic war happening ar threatening, a disparate group of individuals representing many of the peoples of your new created world brought together to save the world, Kings and monsters, sorcerors and wizards...

If you don't generally have any of these it wouldn't be considered one of the Epic Fantasy genre. But there is always room for innovation. Play with conventions turn the princess in distress cliche on its ear (make it a prince in distress, make her not want to be rescued, make it where the hero fails to rescue her) but just be careful not to turn upside-down all the traditions of the formula...otherwise you risk getting outside the genre again. Pick your battles, choose which cliches you want to reinvent.

When you want to write a story within a certain genre you must understand that the traditions of the formula are immutable but not unalterable.

If you want to be groundbreaking don't write a genre story. If you want to be innovative genre is the way to go.

Posted By: jodyjuice03 Nov 28, 2003 - 08:15 pm

I personally hate the cliche about dwarves. Every dwarvish warrior has to carry an axe. I have an event in my story when a dwarf gets pissed off because people are wondering why he has a sword and shield instead of an axe.

Posted By: Aldan Nov 30, 2003 - 12:35 am

I LIKE YOU, JODYJUICE03!!!
In my current story, I have a lot of stereotype-breakers, including a dwarf that doesn't fit the "stout dwarven warrior" mold at all.
*Aldan grins happily*

Posted By: Lairgorne Nov 30, 2003 - 04:59 pm

Well, if you want inspiration on how to break the "mold" of traditional fantasy go to terry goodkinds web page at www.terrygoodkind.com and read some of his interviews. You get very inspired. Its sort of helped me get new ideas how I want my story to go and what issues to deal with. I dont like fitting into a mold of writing,I like making a statement while taking people away from reality for a while.
As far as traditions go, traditions and rules were made to be broken.

Posted By: Adamis Dec 01, 2003 - 02:41 pm

There's always going to be stereotypes, and there will always be people trying to break them...that in of itself is a cliche'.

I've been to Goodkind's website, Lairgorne, and i agree the interviews there were very inspirational or more accurately revitalizing in my case. I especially liked the one where he was talking how he has trouble reading books that don't instantly pique his interest, since I go through that too.

As for the "Gimli" stereotype...I agree with Aldan and Jodyjuice. Dwarven warriors with axes have been practically ridden to death.
The dwarf in my current project is a female and a sorceror that disdains physical violence, so take that Gimli.

Posted By: jodyjuice03 Dec 01, 2003 - 03:56 pm

I wonder......could a dwarf have a clean, shaved face? I might brainstorm a bit with that. Maybe.....

Posted By: iamume Dec 03, 2003 - 11:51 am

Sure, you could even use a giant dwarf.

Posted By: Athalia Dec 03, 2003 - 03:14 pm

Like Carrot in the Discworld?

Posted By: Proserpina Dec 03, 2003 - 09:46 pm

Discworld has a lot of steriotype breakers. Or just makes fun of the steriotypes quite a bit...
Either way, their opposition to the "norms" of the genre make them such fun reads.

Posted By: Queen Ehlana Dec 22, 2003 - 01:35 pm

Well, personally I think dwarves, elves, orcs, and trolls are clichés altogether. I don't intend to include any of those stupid things in my stories. I am sticking mostly to humans for now, but I might create some of my own creatures sometime.

BTW, this is weird... I don't remember any of you except Eleica, and isn't her name spelled differently now?!

Posted By: Eleika Dec 22, 2003 - 01:55 pm

Aye. Eleika's my magickal name as well as my Internet handle. I changed the c to a k over a year ago, after too many people at Witchcamp pronounced it "Alicia" instead of the "El-ay-ee-ka" that I prefer.

Posted By: Queen Ehlana Dec 23, 2003 - 09:32 am

Ah. I was pronouncing it wrong anyway. But I like the k better than c... just the way it looks.

Posted By: Aldan Dec 23, 2003 - 10:23 pm

As long as you don't use the cliched things as a crutch, but, rather, as something which a person who is not used to fantasy, or has grown accustomed to things a "certain way", might be able to grab ahold of so that when you turn things upside down on them, they won't just drop the book and flail about wildly, but rather would keep reading so as to see where things go. It's all a matter of maintaining interest.
As I've said before, I like turning cliches on their Don Quixotes (well, Sancho Panza DID ride an ass, plus if you run his name together... well, I shouldn't have to spell it out for you), by taking a very familiar cliche and just tweaking it a bit at the beginning and then really delving into the background of WHY things are the way that they are, etc.

Posted By: Queen Ehlana Dec 24, 2003 - 07:34 am

Well, clichés in no way attract me. The moment I read words like "elves", "orcs", or "Dark One", I start getting doubtful.

Posted By: manji Jan 02, 2004 - 02:59 am

Rick walk away from this question man. Everytime someone raises it some knowitall [word edit.Bmat] comes up and gives him seven [word edit. Bmat] reasons why the fantasy genre is not dying. Not just on this site, EVERY FANTASY WRITER EVER! However, i've seven different version of 'taps' on CD next to a case of jack daniels fifty year old whiskey, just WAITING for the day that it is admitted the fantasy genre IS dead. But something tells me that bottle of whiskey isn't going to last much longer.