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Scifi and Fantasy Forum: Writer's Discussion: Questions :
Won by the writing?
Won by the writing?
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Well, an agent asked for my story recently and unfortunately I was still rejected. Out of the fifty chapters she got this was her reply...
"While I think the plot is intriguing, I'm afraid I wasn't as won by the writing as I would have wanted."
Any clues as to where the problem could be? I know my strong points: conveying emotion, dialogue, character development, but the strongest is my plotting.
known Weakness: descriptions of places
I'm having a hard time seeing the problem. Hard to distance yourself from your work.  Would anyone here with a strong eye for pinpointing problems and who gives a hard critique care to give the first 50 pages a read to see if you can spot the problem? I don't really want to post it on the critique board. Is it a considerable option for me to consider turning it into a screenplay instead?
Any thoughts or help would be awesome.  I'm still kinda bumming.
I don't think you should turn it into a screenplay, those are even harder to find a producer for. You wouldn't think it from a lot of the things Hollywood puts out, but it is definately a longshot for a fantasy screenplay from a first-time screenwriter. Also, movies these days seem to be leaning more and more toward adaptations of successful works from other media.
I'll read your first 50 pages, but it may take me awhile as I'm swamped with homework and my own writing. I can give it a good scrub-down for grammar, and I'm pretty sure that description of places is a strong point for me.
You can e-mail it to me at: alaskamatt17@hotmail.com
By the way, did this agent give you detailed comments on your manuscript? Did they point out strengths and weaknesses? I know it's something that a lot of agents do when they request a partial manuscript based on the query.
No, there were no details. I was hoping there would have been though. It's been run through Stylewriter for grammar, but I feel it may be the little details messing me up. I'll break off the first 50 and shoot them over later tonight. Thanks for the help.
Lynn
Posted By:  Magus Mar 05, 2005 - 02:18 pm |       | Good luck with that. I think it just boiled down to the agent didn't like it. It seems, by your discription, that it was a matter of personal preference.
I would hope that's what it was but she seemed really excited about it at first, then it kinda fizzled. What can you do?
Many people get rejected, Cleasterwood. Famous writers often save all their rejections like a collection of trophies. I wouldn't take the opinion of ONE agent so seriously.
Besides, here is an important point: writers used to be able to begin writing stories, build their talent, and go on to writing their good works. Unfortunately, writers of today no longer have that luxury of "starting stories." Nah-uh. In the past, they would publish stories that showed a promising talent. Today, they reject them. Promising no longer cuts it. You have to do your best writing NOW to get published now. If it takes another decade to do it, then you'll get published then. If you have a great idea you want to do later on down the road, when you have success and have built up more confidence, do it now! That's what we have to do: pull out all the stops, no holding back. Turn promising writing into your best. There's no time to grow.
On the other hand, sometimes the demand for fantasy or sci-fi may suddenly skyrocket, and they'll publish a whole lot of "promising" works. Or, a certain agent or publisher may just love your style and fight for it. However, I wouldn't count on it..
It's not the rejection that bothers me, Neurolanis. I'm more concerned that she saw something missing from my style, which seems to be the case. I keep my rejection letters too but I plan on throwing darts at them when the time comes. 
It really sucks that agents aren't more willing to help "promising writers" because I see a lot of them. I look at it this way though, if all else fails I can always self-publish and market it myself then after accumulating some 2000 sales, go to an agent and say, "Hey, I sold so many copies on my own now will you represent me." I've read a few people who did this and then got a publisher/agent to pick them up almost immediately. This is a last resort though as there are a few other things I can try first. The most important being look for the problems I may have and fix them. I've also considered turning it into a screenplay as I have a friend who owns a production company and has some good connections in the business who might be able to help get it in. He's done work for Animal Planet,filmed the TV show, "The Family" and a few other major shows. Considering all the special effects that will go into it, I'm thinking it might be more cost effective and easier for me to get it on the screen if I go with a animated version like A.E. (After Earth) or Heavy Metal 2000 or something along those lines. Anime movies seem to do very well these days. Sort of like an adult version of a Pixar film. If I go that route, I also have a graphic artists friend who might want in on it. These are just thoughts but something for me to consider If I can't get the story accepted. Know this though, I'll never give up on Ra's Warrior and the Talismans of Time.
| Posted By: Magus Mar 07, 2005 - 12:25 pm | | "There's no time to grow."
I'm sorry, Neurolanis, but I must disagree with that. Author's often develope their style, much as you've said. But many have done so without publication. Writers can and, I really think, must develope and experiment with their writing. Unless they do they are likely to be mediocre.
Author's don't need publication. What do you think I'm doing? I have what I believe to be an awesome idea for two interconnecting epics.
Am I writng them now?
No.
Instead I'm working on developing my style. I'm working on writing short stories and even a novella. I'm crafting my ideas for my other works more fully and more completely. I'm experimenting with my writing, seeing what does and does not work.
This way, I feel that, when I do start to write the longer ideas I have my style will be worlds apart from where it was when I origionally got this idea. Also the ideas will be more fully developed themselves and I will be able to write it better.
| Posted By: Sara Mar 08, 2005 - 05:05 am | | Remember, too, that most times it's not the first 50 pages that make or break a ms with editors and agents. It can be as little as the FIRST page, period. That's why it's so important to self-edit, to tighten up your introductory chapter as much as possible -- sometimes, those first few pages are all you've got to make your first impression.
That being said, forget about that agent. He or she wasn't right for you. Keep looking. If you feel there's some validity to his or her comments, then edit your work and revise it -- but do so to suit YOU, not a prospective agent or editor. If you're satisfied with your ms., you'll feel confident in submitting it for consideration, and that will come through. It just takes time to find the right "fit" for your work -- you wouldn't want an inept agent representing your ms., would you? (Trust me, I've been there -- you DON'T.)
Explore other options, too. Tor accepts unagented submissions. So do other "large press" publishers. And there's a wealth of small presses and e-book publishers out there who are more willing than the bigger houses to take new authors under their wings. (Use Preditors & Editors and the "Writer Beware" services of SFWA to research before you submit or commit.) My first fantasy ms., "BOOK OF DAYS" is being published later this year by Dragon Tooth Fantasy E-books, a new imprint of Double Dragon, because I decided to submit my book on my own, dropping my agent. I was tired of trying to rework it to fit what I thought others were looking for -- I knew it was good enough to shine on its own.
Hang in there! Chin up!
| Posted By: Magus Mar 08, 2005 - 02:18 pm | | Good Job Sara!
And I agree, just try again. I doubt that you won't get the right fit for your novel sometime soon.
Some of my fellow writers at another site are reviewing it now and have found a few problem places. I've got the action and emotional conveyance to a science. One person is quoting, John Gardner, and she blantantly said "your descriptions aren't good enough" and "your dialogue is good but it could be great" So there's part of the problem. Funny how out of all the people in my workshop, she's the only one that noticed. I thought that was part of it, and this just confirms it. Also funny is the fact that I workshopped that story for a long time. Everyone said, "Oh, great work. Story developing nicely" , which seems to be they were looking a plot and ignoring the real problems. Not the hard honest critiques I was looking for, even from people who are published writers. It took a young writer, with little experience to point out my most major problem-- description.
Anyway, I did put the mss down for several months and it still didn't help. Right now, I'm just waiting on those critiques and am trying to turn it into a script instead as well as plotting out the second novel in the series, which I hope is more descriptive than the first. I've just shoved them both aside lately and haven't done anything. It's just that 'write it as a script' seems to keep jumping into my brain.
| Posted By: Sara Mar 09, 2005 - 07:55 am | | Well, but "your descriptions aren't good enough" and "your dialogue is good but it could be great" aren't exactly prime examples of constructive or useful criticism. Saying, "I like the attention to detail you pay in trying to describe your environment, but think that you could use sharper imagery, stronger words to help convey the message more clearly" is much better.
And it's hard to get an objective opinion from writing groups, because other writers so often want to be supportive of each other's efforts, and don't want to discourage someone by saying anything negative. The most important thing you can learn as a writer is to approach your own work objectively, to give yourself the critiques you're looking for from others. That just takes time and practice.
Magus, I guess what I meant was you must be your best now as in the very best you can do, for now. I guess. But yeah, all writers should grow always.
C. L. Easterwood, did you receive my critique? Was it helpful? I was just trying to do the best I could to find anything an agent or editor might not like.
Yes, I did and it helped. I'm taking all the critiques as they're coming in, gathering them in one place, and paying close attention to things said by all those who are helping me. If more than one say: 'This is awkward' or whatever, I write it to the side and look for the next repeated critique. There are a few awkward sentences and places where the dialogue is rough. The person who quoted Gardner actually didn't send her critique yet, she was just going by what she noticed immediately.
I went over the "Books every writer should read" thread and wrote a list to check out at the library. You wouldn't believe how many notes I've taken and I'm still having problems. I really do think though that the integration of the scenery is my main problem. The others are small in comparison and relatively easy to fix but that one is going to cause a total revision of the story.
I tell you what though, it isn't looking bad written as a script. Some things are getting changed drastically but it still adheres closely to how the book is. The descriptions are much easier to write as well. I found this program called Scriptmaker that sits atop Microsoft Word that works wonders for formatting that way and has all the terminology used in film-making. This is what I'm doing while letting Ra sit for a while. Once the entire story is critiqued by those wonderful people helping me, then I'll start working on revising the novel. Until then it gives me something new to try.
| Posted By: Magus Mar 10, 2005 - 02:46 pm | | Oh, well. GOOD LUCK!
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