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Scifi and Fantasy Forum: Writer's Discussion: Questions :
Where it begins...
Where it begins...
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Posted By:  woody000 Dec 28, 2004 - 10:41 am |       | A question. As usual with my questions, my instincts tell me one thing, but as I've not had formal lessons in any form of English or creative writing post-16, I thought I'd see what people's opinions are.
Although my novel is at an early stage, and really I shouldn't worry about this yet, my boredom got the better of me. Earlier today I began reworking my first chapter a bit. I realised I was in the mood to finally work on the issue which I always knew was there but was putting off fixing; my first page.
The question is simple in principle, in order to hook the reader, what is the best way to start my novel?
The problem with my first chapter is that it is very background orientated, setting the scene in a quiet, low-tech culture. I've heard it said that most first chapters can be cut, and really it's probably true of mine too, though I wouldn't want to as the relationship between two of the characters is important and must be stressed.
Firstly, let me apologise for the names, I don’t really like them. =p It was originally started by a piece of description:
Rinos turned to close his gate. In the distance the sun was setting deep red beyond the forest. A clear night was approaching, coupled with the summer. As he often did on days such as these, he paused to admire the world that gave birth to him. He thought about how beautiful it was, unspoiled and a true reflection of all that was good in the universe.
Fairly nice description, even if it’s raw, unrevised form (if I do say so myself anyway =p), but still description, and so, pretty dull. It actually totals 330 words too, which I think it far too much even if I did decide to start that way.
I reworked this to include some speech earlier on, adjusting the order of events:
“Here it is!” said Baroot, the excitement clear in his voice, “I can’t wait to try it out.” From within a leaf cover, he rolled out a cylinder of wood and offered it to Rinos.
Quickly grabbing it out of his friend’s hands, Rinos lifted it up to the sky and put his eye to one end. “It works!” he exclaimed almost jumping up and down with joy. “What do they call it again?” he then asked after putting his eye back against it.
“A telescope,” replied Baroot.
Now that's better, because it's conversation. (Please feel to correct me if I'm wrong at any juncture- in your opinion.) But is it good enough? People often start novels in a weird way, or with action.
Maybe I could start in the future, in a pivotal situation, and then flash back to the start, or maybe I could start with some innocent piece of action, like rushing to get some music to another village on time. (The main character is a musician.) But is it necessary? And what would each of you recommend?
| Posted By: woody000 Dec 28, 2004 - 11:08 am | | Hmm... just noticed, copying and pasting seems to have mucked up my formatting. I DO know you start a new person's speech on a new line, no need to point it out. =p
Okay then I won't. To me the first one would have been sufficient. It let us know how the character thinks and how he stands in life. The dialogue would do also for it shows how low tech these people are. I think I would have picked something other then a telescope. But hey its your story. The flash back would work to, I have started many of my stories in a flash back. Your characters occupation is fine if it fits his personality, and if you are going with the personality in the original chapter then it would work. It would work perfectly.
Honestly, a telescope is pretty high tech...think about perfection in glass-making, understanding light as a wave, and that glass bends light. Spectacles would have to be first, and spectacles are very 1800's. If you want this to be pre-1800's as far as tech level, I say take something different.
| Posted By: woody000 Dec 28, 2004 - 12:45 pm | | Well firstly, different races would develop in different ways. These people have purposely not done things which would cause too much damage to the environment for instance. This has held their technology back when compared with their knowledge. Secondly, a basic telescope isnt that high tech... it doesnt have to be very useful really... more the sort of thing you might use to enlarge the moon, or possibly at a blurry pinch, one of the planets.
But put that aside, this thread isnt about the telescope, grrrr lol.
I picked a telescope because a) its something close to my own heart and b) this character will be in space in a few chapters, so its a nice to point out his interest in the stars.
| Posted By: woody000 Dec 28, 2004 - 12:46 pm | | oops sorry, i meant to swap my last two sentences around... i hate not being able to edit posts on this forum
| Posted By: talisman Dec 28, 2004 - 02:40 pm | | Personally, I'd say almost always start with some kind of action. An escape, robbery, fight, something exploding...anything to grab the reader's attention. This might just be a prologue.
Then slow things down a bit for chapter 1 and 2 (3 and 4 if there's on prologue)
I'd probably start every chapter with 2-3 paragraphs of prose/description. It gives the reader time to adjust to the scene before you throw dialogue and potentially comlex storyline details at them.
I've also had no English education post-16. I'd much rather just let my instincts and any experience I gather direct how I write. 
Oh and you can edit posts. Click Edit Profile in the menu to the right, log in and then scroll down and you should see your posts there with an 'edit' button. 
| Posted By: woody000 Dec 28, 2004 - 02:54 pm | | ohh i see... how odd lol
anyway, thanks
| Posted By: chowder Dec 28, 2004 - 03:02 pm | | I'm one for starting with action within the first couple of pages. Your first bit (character surveying his world) was good. I don't think 300 words (just over a page) is too much description as long as the action starts soon after (the telescope scene is action--and it piques the reader's interest).
From what I've heard, editors and agents aren't crazy about flashbacks--at least not too many of them.
I tossed out the first chapter of one of my books and the story benefitted from the loss. Sometimes we just have to write it all down then edit it to the bone.
| Posted By: Magus Dec 28, 2004 - 03:59 pm | | 16, as in years old? How do you not have English by then? I had it in my early years of grade school, every year.
Personally, I don't think that the first section of the book you posted works. It seems a little... forced. You may want to work on that a little.
But I really liked the second part. I think it works fine as it is.
I think that what you should do is have the telescope scene as the prologue for the book. Then come in with the first chapter and work literary magic. I think it will work perfectly well that way. you get a gripping and interesting scene to draw them in and then you can slow it down with the first chapters and then bring it back up with the rest of the book.
Sounds good. Keep up the good work!
| Posted By: Aldan Dec 28, 2004 - 09:28 pm | | With most novels, I agree that a hard hit of action will kick-start things. However, let your story dictate it. In the one I've had to set down for the holidays, I have a lot of TENSION, but very little action. I'm introducing the world and the situation in the area, as well as the character, of course. However, this is a pretty mysterious person, not even knowing much of herself, so I don't want to feed the reader ANYTHING. I feel that for this novel, it'd be much more effective to feed the mystery to the reader by way of creating opportunities for the character to learn just how LITTLE she knows of herself. I feel that in this situation, a sense of slight frustration will help to feed the reader's desire to keep going on in the book, so as to hopefully find the answer she is seeking.
That is THAT case. There are others in which one might want to use other methods. For example, a person who grows up in a very sedentary area and who's never even seen an ANIMAL killed for food would have a very different reaction to his/her first experience with violence than would say a farmer's son, who's participated in the pig slaughter each fall. Reaction to a situation, IMO, is much more important than the actual situation, since that reaction introduces you to the character's motivations...
| Posted By: woody000 Dec 29, 2004 - 12:09 am | | MAGUS:16, as in years old? How do you not have English by then? I had it in my early years of grade school, every year.
I said I didnt have formal English lessons POST-16, meaning after 16. In ENGLAND =p we have compulsary lessons up to 16 (which really is a walk in the park for intelligent people), then we pick 3/4 subjects to do between 16-18. The grades we get in those subjects will determine which university you get into. (if you want to go) Theyre also vastly harder than the stuff you do PRE-16. But anyway, I picked Physics, Chemistry, Maths and Computing, and now Im in my first year at university, doing Physics with Astronomy. If I could have done a 5th subject (like some private schools do), then I would probably have done English. (Though I would have considered Biology.) But even if I had, I think I would have struggled; doing 5 is very hard.
MAGUS:I think that what you should do is have the telescope scene as the prologue for the book. Then come in with the first chapter and work literary magic. I think it will work perfectly well that way. you get a gripping and interesting scene to draw them in and then you can slow it down with the first chapters and then bring it back up with the rest of the book.
When you say that, do you mean I should start a prologue with the telescope bit? Or do you mean I start the prologue differently, with something more exciting but have the telescope bit within it?
I personally find that opening with a little bit of action is a cop-out. A book doesn't need to start off with explosions or swordfights to be interesting.
Of course, it is effective, but overused. To me, it's just an easy way to entertain without really challenging yourself as a writer.
Then again, I have yet to be published, so my opinion doesn't carry too much weight.
I have to agree with previous posters. I try to write every opening scene chocked full of action and then I slow it down a bit but then again, I like lots of action in stories I read and write. Action draws the reader in relatively fast and is a good hook to get them interested. Like this first paragraph from my first book.:
She stumbled from the cool shade of the pyramid into the blinding sun. Shielding her face, she raced toward the resident complex as her sight slowly adjusted. Sweat stung her eyes. The mere prospect of such a rarity overwhelmed her and caused the rhythm of her heart to pound in her ears. Focused on what she held in her hand, the supply tents and people blurred as she headed toward her temporary home. Years of searching finally yielded a significant discovery that no other archeologist even noticed. But why hadn’t they? She thought. The scratched out hieroglyphs were minuscule, but visible. Hundreds of questions bombarded her.
It isn't fighting or anything but when she starts out running, her mood and excitement are established immediately and you get an inkling as to how the story is paced. Also, just so you know, I too had to write this scene twice.
| Posted By: Magus Dec 29, 2004 - 06:47 am | | Oh, POST 16. I see it now.
Really? Nothing Post 16? That's a bit strange. Around here you are required by law to take at least one English class each year in high school.
I meant that I think you should open up you story with the telescope scene as your prologue. I think it would work well.
Gnollslayer, I agree. If the prologue is stuffed with action to replace quality, just for the sake of action, then you're completely correct. But, if it fits and is done to complement the rest of the story, is it is done not to replace hard work but used as hard work, then I find it perfectly acceptable.
But, as Cleasterwood posted, action is not always fighting. It could simply be conflict or tension. It's just something that could be used to help draw readers in and intrigue them.
I know that in the prologue of my fantasy epic I start off the story with some action. Simply put a village is raided by Orcs. A woman who is outside for a moment is taken and raped as the rest of the village is burned to the ground wih the people still locked in their homes. The woman then has a child who is now Half-Orc and Half-Human. It then goes to her on a bridge. She throws the child into the river, trying to kill it and fix her "mistake". SHe then goes to a tree and hangs herself.
That's my prologue. It opens the story with action. But it goes a long way to assisting my story. It introducs the main character, Jacatour. It shows how he was born and how he ended up on his own. But it also shows the Orcs and the conflict they have with the humans of the area, which is a very important part of the first book.
So, you see, action can be good, if done in a way to help compliment the stroy and not done as a cop-out of quality and used just for the sake of opening with a bang. Just don't use it poorly and your story will be better for it. Or, use it well, and the story will be, likewise, better for it.
I agree with Chowder. Start with the action. I've also taken out first chapters to my works, as they are often just loads of boring description that can be much more effectively told in pieces here and there -- inserted cleverly -- into the first few chapters.
Good luck with your book!
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