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Scifi and Fantasy Forum: Writer's Discussion: Problems with Writing:
Grammer
Grammer
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Posted By:  dleon Dec 26, 2004 - 06:24 am |       | i'm sorry but i'm not that good with grammer. i didn't pay that much attention in high school english classes so i'm lost when it comes to using proper grammer. is grammer as important in fantasy writing as in other forms of literature.
p.s. whats an adverb? and how can i be sure that the sentence i've written doesn't sound like it was written by a simpleton.
thank you
Yes, grammar is important... unless you're writing in first person. There are a few things you can get away with, like incomplete sentences and punctation irregularities. But if you're writing a novel, it should have good, clean grammar, unless the grammar gives a desired effect.
An adverb "modifies" an adjective, a verb, or another adverb. You know, the words that often end in -ly.
I screamed (v) madly (adv)
I'm terribly (adv) hungry (adj)
I feel (v) much (adv) better (adv)
If don't want to sound like a simpleton, appropriate vocabulary and metaphors will help... And as long as you've got the grammar right and know what you want to write, then you should be fine. From your post, you don't sound like a "simpleton" to me.
Sorry if that doesn't help any.
| Posted By: Bmat Dec 26, 2004 - 06:50 pm | | I wonder if it would help to get your hands on a grammar text- even a used one, that you could read through and maybe do a few exercises. Your local library might have some that you could study. Or there might be help online, I know I've checked on line from time to time for grammar questions.
| Posted By: Magus Dec 26, 2004 - 07:46 pm | | Heh, I have a similer problem. Only, with me, it's fragments and runons. But, though working at it, I've learned to minimize the problem.
You could try taking extra classes, ie from a junior college or something like that. Or, what will most likely be the best choice, just work at it and write.
Grammer is important. Just try practicing good grammer every day and you'll start to see improvements. Write a journal, maybe even a fictional one if it works. Write some poetry or work on your posts. The only way to improve is to work at it, preferably every day. I'm sure that, before long, you'll have gotten the problem cleared up.
| Posted By: woody000 Dec 27, 2004 - 12:20 am | | Couple of quick grammer questions lol: You can have fragments in speech right? Word's been bugging me with that, so far Ive always assumed you can. For instance "Fred?" is a fragment according to word, but its a common thing in speech.
Another quick thing, though I think I already know by instinct. How do you know whether to use a semi-colon or colon?
I dont think Im too bad with grammer, though I have the same problems as Magus to a degree. My main problem is spelling, but these days that doesnt matter anywhere near as much. I think thats a good thing, because Id hate to think that someone had the potential to be a great and famous author, but they didnt become one due to poor spelling. Although grammer is much more important, id still say the same. If you've got good ideas, and the right temperament for writing then good luck. Work on your grammer and then get on with it! =p
Grammar is a very intergril and important part of writing. If your grammar is atrocious I'd suggest grabbing yourself a college level book from the used book store and tackling it or attending a refresher course or creative writing class and always use your grammar/spell check when writing. Bad grammar will get you rejected quickly. Editors don't like seeing bad grammar in even the query letters, they will end up in the trash if it has typos, punctuation, or grammar problems. Editors/agents don't have the time to waste on a writer that they have to tutor in proper grammar unless they have highly, highly exceptional work. Most of all, practice, practice, practice. The more you do it, the better you get at it. 
Now as far as fragments and run-ons are concerned: I think fragments are fine as long as they are used sparingly to show character personality in dialogue, impact the story due to being brief, or if it's in a character's thoughts. Run-ons, get rid of them.
Word will bug you on fragments, it also bugs you on character names and words not in its dictionary due to an outdated program. It's told me I've mis-spelled words that I know are right. What I do is when Word says I've an incorrect word that I suspect isn't incorrect, I boot up my program called "Word Web" as it is an up-to-date and useful program. It's also free so if you want it, you can search Google and download it. I've found it very useful for foreign words as well. Another program I'd suggest is "Wurds", also free. It's a text analyzing program that shows you how many times each word has been used(so you can get rid of redundancy), gives an exact word(which you'll need for your query, synopsis, and cover letter), character, and paragraph count.
I have a friend who edits my work and she's constantly telling me to omit the fragments but in longer stories I've read that they are fine when used appropriately. I've also read many stories, Anne Rice, Stephen King, Piers Anthony for example, that have fragments. Most novels do but again they are used sparingly.
According to Random House College Dictionary
SEMI-COLON
1. Used to join two independant, related sentences together that are not joined by a conjunction.
2. To separate independant clauses that are joined by such conjunctive adverbs as "hence, therefore, however," etc.
3. To separate long or possibly ambiguous items in a sentence when the items already include commas. EX: The elected officials are Jonathan, president; Frances, vice president; Edward, treasurer.
4. To separate elements that are closely related but cannot be joined unambiguiously. Ex: Poverty is unbearable; luxury, inssuferable.
5. To precede an abbreviation or word that introduces an explanatory statement. Ex. ON the advice of his broker, after much deliberation, he chose to invest n major industries; i.e., steel, automobiles, and oil.
COLON:
1. To introduce a series or list of items, examples, or the like.
2. To introduce a long formal statement, quote, or question.
3. To follow a formal salutation in a letter.
4. To follow a speaker in a play or screen play.
5. To separate pars of a citiation like in the Bible.
6.To separate hours
7. To indicate that an initial clause in a sentence will be further explained or illustrated by the material which follows the colon. In effect, the colon is a substitute for such pharses as "for example" or "namely".
Hope this helps!
| Posted By: woody000 Dec 27, 2004 - 05:48 am | | COLON:
7. To indicate that an initial clause in a sentence will be further explained or illustrated by the material which follows the colon. In effect, the colon is a substitute for such pharses as "for example" or "namely".
Aha. Yes, I am using them correctly, thanks.
Good grammer is a must, but grammer can be learnt, where as great story writing often cannot. (Or at least, some people arent capable of it, where as everyone is capable of using proper grammer, unless they have a mental disorder.)
| Posted By: Magus Dec 27, 2004 - 06:46 am | | Fragments and runons can be used in speech. Virtually, all grammer rules are null when in dialogue.
A semi colon seperates two clauses that could stand along as sentences; a colon seperates a sentence from a list, such as:
a grocery list
a book list
any sort of listing you can think of.
Ahhhhh, spelling, my one true foil. It's gotten so bad that there are people here who wnt to teach me how to spell. I'm doing better, but still need that help, sad to say.
Yes, never trust Word's grammer check. I actually was typing a story of mine the other day. I used the phrase "less pale" but they said that I should use "fewer pales". I know enbough to know that that is wrong.
Also, I forget the exact phrases, but twice this has happened to me, where I have a phrase and it says it's wrong. So I change it to what was suggested. Only then it says it's wrong and should be changed to what it was before. It's an endless cycle!
| Posted By: woody000 Dec 27, 2004 - 07:41 am | | lol that happened to me earlier, only when I changed it back it accepted it.
Word definitely doesn't have the best grammar capacity, but using it as a supplement to your knowledge of the English language can really smooth out your writing.
| Posted By: Magus Dec 28, 2004 - 08:34 am | | Yes, I agree. You just have to know when they're really stupid, and when they're only less stupid. Knowing that will definately help a person out.
| Posted By: dleon Dec 29, 2004 - 06:56 pm | | hey i understood almost everything you guys were talking about and it helps alot. i also use word for spellchecking and grammer. but just one question if you don't mind can you remind me what a conjunction is
| Posted By: Magus Dec 29, 2004 - 08:31 pm | | ***SINGS***
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
Hooking up words and phrases and clauses.
Conjunction Junction, how's that function?
I got three favorite cars
That get most of my job done.
Conjunction Junction, what's their function?
I got "and", "but", and "or",
They'll get you pretty far.
"And":
That's an additive, like "this and that".
"But":
That's sort of the opposite,
"Not this *but* that".
And then there's "or":
O-R, when you have a choice like
"This or that".
"And", "but", and "or",
Get you pretty far.
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
Hooking up two boxcars and making 'em run right.
Milk and honey, bread and butter, peas and rice.
Hey that's nice!
Dirty but happy, digging and scratching,
Losing your shoe and a button or two.
He's poor but honest, sad but true,
Boo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo!
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
Hooking up two cars to one
When you say something like this choice:
"Either now or later"
Or no choice:
"Neither now nor ever"
Hey that's clever!
Eat this or that, grow thin or fat,
Never mind, I wouldn't do that,
I'm fat enough now!
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
Hooking up phrases and clauses that balance, like:
Out of the frying pan and into the fire.
He cut loose the sandbags,
But the balloon wouldn't go any higher.
Let's go up to the mountains,
Or down to the sea.
You should always say "thank you",
Or at least say "please".
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
Hooking up words and phrases and clauses
In complex sentences like:
"In the mornings, when I am usually wide awake,
I love to take a walk through the gardens and down by the lake,
Where I often see a duck and a drake,
And I wonder as I walk by
Just what they'd say if they could speak,
Although I know that's an absurd thought.">
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
Hooking up cars and making 'em function.
Conjunction Junction, how's that function?
I like tying up words and phrases and clauses.
Conjunction Junction, watch that function.
I'm going to get you there if you're very careful.
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
I'm going to get you there if you're very careful.
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
I'm going to get you there if you're very careful.
| Posted By: woody000 Dec 30, 2004 - 12:54 am | | *rolls his eyes* lol
OH that's good Magus! hehehehe
| Posted By: Magus Dec 30, 2004 - 07:57 am | | 
I'm glad you enjoyed it.
I have a friend who memorized the one song about The Preamble to the Constitution. He performed it for extra credit in front of our class last year.
| Posted By: dleon Dec 31, 2004 - 04:53 pm | | thanks
| Posted By: Magus Jan 01, 2005 - 06:49 am | | Don't thank me. Thank Schoolhouse Rock!
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