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Posted By: Aeawyn Dec 15, 2004 - 08:08 pm

Alright, to lay it out, ive been prewriting and outlining a fantasy book for 2 years or so (i havent worked on it everyday even though i have put a TON of thought into it). Much to my pleasure its turning out great, but im having one problem that i cant get to work: fighting scenes. I just cant get it to go through the "scene" gracefully. Its all robotic, and fighting happens to be a major point in my book. Any help is apprecialted, or any links to help. I'm thinking about looking at the dragonlance books, or LOTR, but i want to develop my own style, i just need a push.

Posted By: talisman Dec 16, 2004 - 01:19 am

What kind of problem are you having specifically?

Is it too fast, too slow, or too mechanical perhaps?

They are quite difficult to write. It's probably best to focus on emotions rather than actions in such scenes. Rather than saying person 'a' does this, 'b' does this, 'a' does this, 'b' does this...over and over I'd intersperse these actions with explaining some of the emotions each feels - anger, anxiety, fear and possibly their thoughts or what they see around them.

I'd imagine a thesaurus might come in useful with these scenes too, as you can utilise a whole range of words to help the 'moves' of the combatants flow together.

Just my initial thoughts. Maybe post a scene in the writers showcase forums and we can comment on it.

Posted By: manji Dec 16, 2004 - 02:47 am

I try to make my fight scenes poetic. Don't just talk about 'He blocked this and this other guy went in for the kill' but write something like 'He blocked the lightning-quick strikes of his enemie's twin swords, giving ground when he had to and taking ground when the oppurtunity presened itself, just waiting for an opening in his enemies attacks.'
I used to write like 'He fired seven times into the attacker's chest as the burly man bored down on him, knife in hand. The man's corpse smashed against his body, knocking him to the ground and pinning him under dead weight.' Now, while i think that's good, it could be better. A lot better. Was the room dark? If so, then the muzzle flash of the first shot would blind him and he'd have to fire the rest of the seven shots blindly. Was the man roaring when he charged? If he was, did the sound of the gun drowned out the attacker's screams of pain and death or was his death cry louder than the gun?
If you're talking about larger battles, this best thing to do is just tell what happened but go into detail. "The cannon opened up, blasting the charging soldiers below' doesn't sound as good as 'The cannon's report roared over the screams of the enraged soldiers on the battlefield. Screams of rage, anger and bloodlust quickly turned into screams of fear as the soldiers below realized what was happening. The regiments ranks exploded as the shells landed among them, one after the other. The shelling only lasted a moment but it seemed like eternity for the trapped men of what was once the king's bravest, strongest hoplite regiment, now just a pile of broken and dead men.'

Posted By: Magus Dec 16, 2004 - 01:49 pm

I agree with the above posted. Try using some metaphors or describe their emotions and feelings. That's the best way to go.

Have them reflect on the battle. Have them remember a past events. But all of it has to be relevent, that's the key.

I wouldn't look to The Lord of the Rings for battle scenes, personally. The Battle of Helm's Deep is only about ten pages long. He couldn't go to far without saying "And Aragorn lobbed off another Orc's head."

But, then again...

Yes, look to it, on second thought. Just don't look to Helm's Deep for any help. It wasn't that exquisitely written, comparatively to the rest of the book.

I would recommend, also, looking to other fantasy books, the one's you mentioned seem fine. You can also, if you care, look to our very own Lycoria, on this site, if you want to see what some members of this site do.

I personally like to compare battles to dances, or to music, or even to poetry. But, mostly, they're compared to dances.

Posted By: Aeawyn Dec 16, 2004 - 04:00 pm

thanks guys I meant mechanical, and you guys nailed it. Once i start posting chapters in my book, ill exercise that. Thanks!

Posted By: Magus Dec 16, 2004 - 06:15 pm

No problem. It's always a pleasure to help.

Posted By: Some Idiot Dec 21, 2004 - 01:48 pm

magus has, as usual, hit the nail on the head.

Fighting scenes are, without a doubt, one of the hardest things to capture well, and probably rewritten the most before the final draft. Mechanical difficulties are the number 1 reason - they seem cardboard. Emotion is a great key, here. Tell it from the character, and if the fight is important, he or she probably has a lot going on in the head, whether it be fear or anger or sadness... The tragic regret of killing, or the rabbit like response of fear in the face of danger.

I have seen many 'professional' writers that still need to work on their fight scenes.

Posted By: Caegaraneva Dec 22, 2004 - 07:01 am

A good way to do fight scenes is pick a feeling for each one, or for different parts of each one. In an all-out battle, you would probably want to capture something like grinding, crushing death, chaos, etc.; For a duel between two well-matched, excellent fighters go like Magus said; a Dance, very graceful, swish, flick, deadly quick. (hehe, i made a rhyme...)

Noise is a big deal for capturing the atmosphere. Like someone said; screams, crashing, or just the ching of swords and the rustle of soft soles on the stone floor. Sweat on the brow, trickle of blood from a slight wound on the arm. Inject details to slow down a duel, make it seem more catlike, and graceful, and really put the readers in the moment.

Posted By: Magus Dec 22, 2004 - 07:03 am

That's a good idea, Caegaraneva. It would add a certain variety to the battles, keeping them fresh and unique. Wonderful idea!

Posted By: Gnollslayer Dec 22, 2004 - 05:14 pm

Magus suggested equating battles to dances, which is a good idea, but don't limit yourself just to that. Battles are also easy to equate with forces of nature. Floods, tides, the cold and biting winds of the north, even the change of seasons can be used in reference to battle.

Another thing that fantasy books tend to do is overemphasizr the honorable and glorious part of battle, and not portray the cruel, grisly, and very unheroic side. I know it's not the case with every sci-fi/fantasy book, but I've seen plenty that do this.

Posted By: Magus Dec 22, 2004 - 06:11 pm

While there is honor and glory to be found in battle, it is not all that there is. In my epic I'm writing very little in battle is as honorable as most. Almost every battle shown is part of vengeance.

One character is after his brother for burning his mother and father alive, raping torturing and then murdering his fiance and then framing him for the whole thing.

Another character his after his brother for killing his wife. He didn't know that it was his wife, only his "woman" and wouldn't have killed her otherwise. But he, despite being a great warrior lord, cannot bring himself o tell his brother this.

And then it get's more intricate and complicated, but most is brutal and cruel, a death match for vengeance.

I also agree that there's plenty more to relate battles to. More often then not I go back to dancing and he like. But I imagine that when I get more into the writing of the battles I will use other similies and metaphors as well.

Posted By: Aeawyn Dec 24, 2004 - 09:06 am

Nice idea Magus for your book And thanks for the ideas guys.

Posted By: azerin Jan 03, 2005 - 07:41 pm

Hey Aeawyn,

I'm not really sure if you are still checking this thread, but I really wanted to reply to your predicament. I strongly agree with what people have said about focusing on emotion. In an actual bout, emotion controls how well a person will fight and how well a fight will go, I speak from experience. Having a knot form in your stomach in the middle of the fight is the worst, as it is a sign of fear to confront your opponent, leaving you in a fight with only a fraction of your fighting potential. On the other hand, being confident (not overconfident), intense, and in control of your emotions probably give you the best chance to fight at your full capacity.

Another suggestion I have about describing a fight scene: if you have only one main character, describe the fight from there perspective. For example, if they are struck in the leg with a sword and they didn't see it, describe the effect of the blow, not the blow itself.

If you are still looking for a particular book, I would suggest the trilogy "The Deed of Paksenarrion" by Elizabeth Moon. Her fight scenes are very realistic and the book itself is pretty good too. When I read it, I couldn't put it down.

I hope I don't offend anyone when I say this, but fighting and dancing are very, very different (unless you are talking about capoeira). Also, if you are looking for realism, there is one general rule to follow: the better the combatants, the sooner the battle ends, even if they are evenly matched. If they aren't evenly matched, the stronger opponent will win, quickly. This, of course, doesn't apply as much to a pitched battle between two armies, but with smaller battles, it's generally true.

Anyway, good luck finishing your book. And if you have anymore questions about making a fight more realistic (if that's what you are looking for), then you can email me at bltyndal@unity.ncsu.edu.

Posted By: Magus Jan 04, 2005 - 02:50 pm

Good advice, Azerin. I'll have to remember some of that myself.

Posted By: Seeria Jan 13, 2005 - 01:31 am

Well said Azerin.
This might sound flaky but for the more technical (stratigic too) side of combat and war, I've found The Art of War and a variety of "fight" books helpful. Brawling/street fighting, martial art books, fencing, etc., can give some nice pointers as to techniques. Some even go into the mental and emotional state, like what Azerin posted about.

And when it comes to a war (flaky part here), I found watching full battles of large SCA groups to be helpful in seeing the tons of things that happen on a large and individual scale during a battle. Pennsic War is probably best place to witness SCA wars.