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Scifi and Fantasy Forum: Writer's Discussion: Problems with Writing:
Dialogue
Dialogue
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Posted By:  Berry Nov 05, 2004 - 04:09 am |       | I am having a problem with dialogue. In the narrative my writing can be snappy, witty (obviously this is a matter or opinion) and generally well paced. When I come to write dialogue it seems flat and unlikely, even though I try to write it, as I would say it the flatness pervades. I can’t seem to get a good pace going, the narrative seems so simple by comparison. Has anyone got any hints on this? I’ll be very grateful.
Berry
| Posted By: chowder Nov 05, 2004 - 05:03 am | | Dialogue isn't conversation. It doesn't have to be snappy or witty, but it should move the story forward or provide information (without seeming to--which means, don't make your dialogue accomplish too much).
Here's some hints I hope you'll find helpful:
Compress your dialogue (be concise, create tension)
Don't let your characters go on and on and on...
Introduce beats, actions. For example: "I can't go with you." She gazed down at the piles of paper on her desk. "Wish I could."
Use 'said' and steer clear of tags like: laughed, declared, hissed, etc. They're intrusive and only serve to make the reader more aware of the tags.
Don't always have a character answer another character's question.
Like the rest of your story, dialogue should be full of tension and conflict. Don't waste the reader's time with "Hello. Lovely day, isn't it?"
All characters should be distinct, have their own voice. Not an easy thing to do.
Finally, read great dialogue. Figure out what works and what doesn't.
Good luck. With practice, your dialogue will be as great as your narrative.
| Posted By: Magus Nov 05, 2004 - 01:21 pm | | It should be as realistic and true as it can be. Have them talk the way that makes sense to their character and to the situation. But remember this, dialogue isn't anything, in fact, it's far from it.
My mother is a speach and language pathologist. Her job is working with people to improve their verbal skills. According to her the auditory message a person gives is only 7% of commuinication. Only 7%! I just asked her now and she's confirmed it.
So I suggest to include narrorations. Explain the body language and the tone they character takes. Explain what they are thinking of and what their message really is.
With time your dialogue writing skills will improve. Just remember that there's so much more then the auditory message a person gives.
| Posted By: talisman Nov 06, 2004 - 06:21 am | | Pretty much agree with all of the above posts, though I don't think using 'tags' such as laughed, hissed are bad, though they shouldn't replace 'said' as the main one. Hissed and laughed might suit some characters more than other, and some situations more than others, so I think they should and can be used.
As for dialogue not related to furthering the plot, I can see uses for it, namely to build up a character. Obviously its the kind of thing you throw in from time to time, particularly if you want to slow things down or fill in a short space of time between events.
Most of all it needs to feel natural, rather than precise and following sets of rules.
| Posted By: Magus Nov 06, 2004 - 06:27 am | | Yes, I agree. You also need to, like he said, not always have said, but also not always have a replacement for it.
Here's my take on it:
Said is the basic describer. It should be used the most often. To amplify the emotions, reactions or tendencies of the speaker at any given time it can be replaced with another, more descriptive word. But just be careful not to overuse this. Also you could simply forgoe "he said" "she said" "he hissed" "she grated" if it is implied who'sspeaking. Again, don't do this too often or too many times in a single dialogue exchange. But it does quicken the flow of your writing.
| Posted By: chowder Nov 06, 2004 - 06:39 am | | I've always beleived the words themselves should imply 'how' something is said (we're writers, after all, and should be able to create effective dialogue that does the job). But I know it's impossible not to use tags other than 'said'.
Note: you can't 'laugh' dialogue, though you can whisper, scream or hiss.
| Posted By: Magus Nov 06, 2004 - 06:45 am | | I've actually done that before, in Lycoria. "blablablabla." He laughed, grinning widely. It can be done, and is being done.
"Laughed" seems more acceptable as a dialogue tag than most other things I can think of, even if it is grammatically incorrect. It conveys enough information to be used once or twice in a long work, as long as it truly fits the tone of the work and the personality of the character.
| Posted By: Magus Nov 07, 2004 - 05:30 am | | Is laughed really gramatically incorect? I wonder how that is.
| Posted By: chowder Nov 08, 2004 - 07:16 am | | I'm only relaying what I've read--that one cannot 'laugh' dialogue. You can laugh after you've said something, but you can't laugh what you've said. But, of course, an agent or editor isn't going to care if someone laughs their dialogue if the story is written well. So, all-in-all, a pretty minor point.
| Posted By: talisman Nov 08, 2004 - 10:35 am | | lol, that's true I guess, though you could...
a) be speaking in between fits of laughter, or
b) be making a joke or saying something ironic or amusing in some other way and then laughing, all of which could be conveyed in one emotion, that of 'laughter'.
| Posted By: Magus Nov 08, 2004 - 12:58 pm | | Yeah, I alsways thought it was possable. I do it all the time, in writing and just plain talking.
I think all these are very good suggestions. The one thing to remember when using replacements like 'hiss', though, is that it only works if the sentences have 's' for endings or has multiple 's' sounds in it. I read some where that editors get irritated when that replacement is used improperly.
Example from Ra's Warrior:
“This is what they have made us.” Her double hissed, spreading her arms wide.
Replacements are fine as long as they are used sparingly.
Somehow dialogue comes easy for me. It's good to be on the lookout for things you, yourself, say or others say while having a conversation. Listen to the way people speak with eachother as this is dialogue. It helped me when writing my dialogue lines. Not everyone speaks in whole sentences all the time, they each have their own special way to communicate, and no two are ever the same. Using accents also helps in distinguishing dialogue. i.e. A southerner speaks differently than a New Yorker for example. To add spice to your characters, think of the region they are from, create a special way for them to speak based on education as well as location of origin. I have one character that replaces "shall" for 'will' to show the royal aspect of the character. One has a thick southern accent but is well educated, one has a thick southern accent but lacks education, which naturally leads to the use of 'ain't' and double negatives and the distinguishing marks between these two related characters. Everything must be factored into the character that you are writing the dialogue for.
| Posted By: Magus Nov 13, 2004 - 05:53 am | | I agree, they must be used sparingly to add spice to the story. I also agree with the ways you describe fleshing out the dialogue. But I never knew that "hissed" had to be used when the sentence ends in an "s".
My eighth grade English teacher did a lot for me. He taught me, the entire class really, the importance of revision and editing. He also did a lot to develope our styles. He told us that, in dialogue, you can break any grammatical rule you wish. Misspellings show how they pronounce a word. People speak in run-ons and fragments. People do use double negatives and improper contractions.
I say that cleasterwood gave some solid advice that I wholeheartedly agree with.
Thanks Magus. I've been doing critiques on work for a long time at RYW, which incidentally I'm going to submit an article about it to the SFFW monthly newsletter. There are a lot of English majors and published writers there and they've helped me grow as a writer so much I could never thank them enough. Therefore, I want to promote them and thank them. If anyone here is doing NaNo, look for the article which references the RYW site.
Back to subject:
To hiss a reply there must be an 's' sound only because you can't hiss other sounds. How can you hiss an 'a'? You can accentuate your letters, disregard grammar rules in dialogue (as long as you keep your errors in the dialogue only and don't slip into writing the entire story that way, which I've seen it done.), and all kinds of fun things which adds to character development as well as making your dialogue more interesting and full of depth.
As far as revising and editing, I use Stylewriter when I'm in that process as it's a great program to run alongside Word and Corel. I must have done 10 revisions on my first novel (without Stylewriter) and at least 2 edits to fix grammatical errors. It is extremely important when writing to do multiple revisions as long as you remember not to over revise it as that causes its own problems. I usually only leave comments on subjects that I have a good grasp on. Since I'm new to the Fantasy writing world, I usually listen more than I comment, which has taught me alot in itself.
And a bit on the shameless self-promotion side of things: If you guys and gals wouldn't mind, I need some input on a Synopsis I posted in the Request section. Any thoughts and comments would be greatly appreciated. 
One of my characters rarely "says" anything. He hisses, growls, or commands on most occasions. It just felt wierd to use "said" for this character's dialogue because, being non-human, he would hardly have the capacity to speak in the normal sense of the word.
For all my human characters though, it's "said" or "asked" more often than not. Alternate dialogue tags really sapped the strength out of my rough draft, so I hacked out as many of them as I could in subsequent drafts.
| Posted By: Aldan Nov 14, 2004 - 09:25 pm | | One of the things that alternate dialogue tags do when used rarely is create a sense of "being there". If you use those tags all of the time, well, for me my imagination breaks down. Even for an alien, it's usually much better to not use the growl or whatever in everything, but instead to emphasize it when he speaks in front of someone who hasn't heard him speak before. Once a chapter should be all you'll need to get it across without losing the effectiveness of the tag.
That's my opinion, but it's also the opinion of a couple of editors I know, so take it as you will...
| Posted By: Magus Nov 15, 2004 - 04:21 am | | I agree. Taags should be used sparingly so as to keep them fresh in the minds if the readers. But post tag nerraration is many times just as, if not more effective then just tags alone, if you don't mind slowing the low slightly. But they, also, should be ussed sparingly. But, if all three methods are used together, then you have a wonderful variety.
***You guys have no idea how hard it is to type that one-handed with a sleeping dog on your lap.***
One thing I'd like to add to the pile: NEVER EVER USE THE WORD "QUESTIONED". That's just a personal opinion, but when I see it in cheap fantasy or non-professional writing it just SCREAMS ugly to me.
For Example:
"Would you like an apple?" she questioned inquiringly.
BLECH!!! Repetition!!! (Same goes with "queried" by the way)
I hardly even like using tags at all...but I try to limit it to "said" and "asked". I agree that "laughed" shouldn't be something that can be done to dialogue. Instead, I like to use "He said, laughing"
I do think that hissing is a manner of speaking, not just something that can be done with "S". In fact; think about it...you can "hiss" manny other letters.. such as the soft "th", "f" and other soft consonants. But even more than that, there is a sound of speaking, adding very soft H sounds to the beginning of vowels and so forth, that characterizes what I would call hissing.
Well, that is my rambling opinion.
I guess you could say it varies with each charecter and the writers style. A general or a captain may "bark out commands" while a spooky creature may "hiss" or "growl" while a prankster or a joker may "laugh" at all his own coments (wow. that would be sad to laugh at all your own coments)and a depressing person will "sigh" all of there thoughts and the hero of your story may actually be saying something. The mix of what tag you use would depend on what charecters appear in your story. But like I said its all in opinion of the writers style.
| Posted By: Magus Dec 12, 2004 - 12:09 pm | | That's a very true post, Toki Suzukiko. I think it's something that we all should take to heart.
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