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Scifi and Fantasy Forum: Off-Topic Conversations: Evolution. Is it just a theory.:
Archive through Apr 06, 2004
Archive through Apr 06, 2004
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For all those Evolutionists out there ev news:
UV light may have sparked life on Earth
18:18 28 May 03
NewScientist.com news service
Ultra-violet light, long thought to be an impediment to the early formation of long organic molecules, may in fact hold the key to the origin of life, according to a new study.
more here:
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993778
Accelerating Universe theory dispels dark energy
Tweaking gravity does away with need for strange forces.
3 July 2003
JOHN WHITFIELD
The accelerating expansion of the Universe can be explained without invoking a force of dark energy, a group of US physicists is proposing. Gravity alone might be driving everything apart with ever-increasing speed, they claim.
"The fact that the Universe is speeding up might be the biggest mystery in all of science," says Michael Turner of the University of Chicago. "Really big problems require crazy new ideas - and ours is right up there with the craziest." He hopes others will build on the idea, or knock it down.
More here:
http://www.nature.com/nsu/030630/030630-7.html
wow.......lots of opinions here...im just saying that i think evolution isn't just a theory, its reality!
Reality!?
All it has done so far is run in circles. After years and years of scientific research, all we have is a minute awareness of how much we don't know.
In the last ten years, we have learned more than we have in the rest of history. I am of the belief that the current trend will continue. Imagine, one hundred years from now, how much we will realize we DON'T know.
Until we know everything, the only thing we will know is how truly little we really do know. Until we know everything about the universe, evolution will remain a theory.
Posted By:  Adam Jan 06, 2004 - 10:33 pm |       | Educational stuff:
http://www.nap.edu/html/creationism/
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000D4FEC-7D5B-1D07-8E49809EC588EEDF
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/history/evolution.html
http://lsvl.la.asu.edu/evolution/
http://www.talkorigins.org/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/education/darwin/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/
| Posted By: Locke10 Mar 13, 2004 - 08:52 pm | | i myself am christian tho i believe in god i think we were evolved, there is many theories of this, sometimes i wonder if there is a heaven, its really farfetched if you think about it, some crazy pyscho could have made the whole thing up
A lot of theories do not make it fact.......
I do not think heaven is farfetched....
To me if you think about it Evolution is farfetched.......Somehow life evolved from non-life, the first life-forms eventually evolved to man....over eons based on rock dating and some bones that everyone argues about....and guess work....
The bible has about 39 chapters in the old Testiment and about 27 chapters in the new testiment, writen by anumber of authors...This is fact...
That means that all those authors are would have to be crazy psychos ..... I don't think so...
Of course some could say it was all myth and lengend....that is an explantion....not the one I go with....
You believe in God but not the bible, the word of God?, how is that.....
| Posted By: Adam Apr 05, 2004 - 08:07 am | | Dude. Evolutions is observable fact. Life did not come from nowhere. It came from quite well understand chemical interactions.
Yes, the books of the various bibles were written. That is fact. Some people DID write some books. Someone also wrote Harry potter. Big deal.
The fact that you don't understand something does not negate the validity of that thing.
Actually Adam, I read an article somewhere a long time ago, saying that Evolution was about as far fetched as creation, it basically started with a primeordial(spelling?) soup in which a bunch of amino acids came together to form the first single cell ameoba, now apparently, it takes something like 27 or so of these acids, of the correct polarity to come together and have a party or something (my memory is a bit shakey on the details). But Amino Acids don't mix in water, and since that is where we supposedly come from, some Scientists believe the chances of it happening are about the same as for creation... I'd have to look it all up but you get the general idea....
Of course if someone else can elaborate, or enlighten me... I'm all ears!
| Posted By: Adam Apr 05, 2004 - 01:39 pm | | I'm sure whatever you read was very entertaining and written by qualified and educated people. Now read these:
http://www.nap.edu/html/creationism/
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000D4FEC-7D5B-1D07-8E49809EC588EEDF
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/history/evolution.html
http://lsvl.la.asu.edu/evolution/
http://www.talkorigins.org/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/education/darwin/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/
Yeah, I've had a brief skim through, and the facts do indeed standup, however, there are instances where even the scientific bit states evolution and creationism are not in disagreement.
Incidentally Adam, I'm not suggesting you are wrong, neither am I suggesting that creationism is wrong, neither am I suggesting life came from mars which is mentioned in one of the sites you supplied, everyone is entitled to an opinion, if joe bloggs believes in god, that's fine, if you don't, that's fine also but I'm not going to ram fact down someones throat if their beliefs are comforting for them.
| Posted By: Adam Apr 05, 2004 - 09:38 pm | | Well, you did ask. The facts are these:
- Creationism is NOT supported by ANY facts.
- Evolutions IS supported by LOTS of facts.
Er... Actually I didn't ask, I just posted something I read about as I thought it was interesting
| Posted By: Adam Apr 06, 2004 - 03:48 am | | "Of course if someone else can elaborate, or enlighten me... I'm all ears!"
You asked. I enlightened.
fairy snuff !
I take it you are an avid supporter of Evolution as opposed to Creation ? I personally believe it is all down to a combination of both, and I'll tell you why !
If we come from single cell ameoba, which I am sure we probably do, then why do we do all the little things that are not important, or rather non-essential to existance, let me elucidate... what do single cell lifeforms do ? they eat, swim around and make more little cells, perfect, that is all they need to do.
Now what do humans do ? or should I re-phrase that, What do humans need to do to exist ? well, like ameobae they need to eat, sleep, and make more little humans... two out of three isn't bad.
Now lets ask the original question, What do humans do ?
Well some paint and become great artists... what purpose does this serve, if we didn't have art, would the human race die, if we could still eat, sleep and make more little humans.
Some people tell stories... are stories essential to the existance of humans as a species, is music, are cars, are computers, is this forum essential, provided we can still do the main three things that are required ?
Now lets apply these questions to evolution, if life began as a single living cell, that does its three basic functions, at what point did it develop the ability to dream, or paint, or make music, or build a computer, or believe in god, and why did it do so, it doesn't need any of these functions to exist so why should we ?
Now I'm not suggesting that some divine power came down and made an ameoba sing a song, the truth is I really don't know, but I think we as humans don't yet know, what we don't know, when it comes to the origins of the universe, therefore I have an open mind on the subject, yes the evolution theory does have credence, but as far as creation is concerned...
"where there is smoke, you will find, invariably, fire"
Personally, I think there is something more to it than evolution (which I believe in) for many of the reasons Mr. B mentioned, but I don't personally think Creationism is the answer.
"fairy snuff!" - I think you may have something there. It's a combination of evolution and fairy snuff. That's some good stuff 
Seriously, as I said before, we're all here now, so what does it matter? In a science class, you teach the scientific theory (and I'm sorry, but creationist "science" does not follow the scientific method). In a religious class, you teach creationism if that's what your particular religion believes. In the end, people will believe whichever makes the most sense to them - and frankly, as long as they aren't ramming their beliefs down anyone else's throats - it doesn't matter if anyone else agrees with you on this issue, so long as you are comfortable with your conclusions. If what I believe is wrong, for instance, the human race will not be affected, no one will self combust, and we're all still here, y'know?
Just my 2 cents on that.
As far as evolution being a theory, of course it is. So is gravity. There are very few things that science officially classifies as "fact" - or so I've been taught.
| Posted By: Adam Apr 06, 2004 - 10:09 am | | "I take it you are an avid supporter of Evolution as opposed to Creation?"
No. They are not in opposition. That's like saying thermodynamics and Rapunzel are in opposition. They simply have nothing to do with each other. One is real. The other is pure fiction, unless/until supported by evidence.
"If we come from single cell ameoba..."
We don't.
"Well some paint and become great artists..."
And bower birds collect shiny things to make their nests all pretty.
"where there is smoke, you will find, invariably, fire"
Where there is superstition, you will find ignorance. The world is not flat. The number of people believing a thing has absolutely no bearing on whether that thing is real or not.
| Posted By: Aldan Apr 06, 2004 - 01:57 pm | | I hate to say this, but I must, so I shall...
Every scientific idea that people have had since the basics of "fire is hot" "water is wet" etc. has eventually been proven wrong. At one time, scientists said "The world is flat." I believe that it has been proven wrong.
I bring up this point just to say that CURRENT scientific "FACT" is quite possibly JUST AS CORRECT AS THE FACT THAT THE WORLD IS FLAT. Is it? Is it not? That's for future science to determine. Of course, then the scientists even FURTHER in the future will probably decide that THOSE were wrong, as well.
Some people say that the immense complexity, combined with the utter simplicity of the universe are proofs of the existence of a "higher being". I refuse to say yea or nay, since there're no proofs on either side.
There's a quote I've seen, but I can't remember who said it. It says, "Prove to me that there is no God, and I'll prove to you that there IS."
Anything having to do with something to BELIEVE in can't be proven, until it smacks you right in the face. If/when God/Allah/Odin/Zeus/Jupiter/ whateverothernameyouwanttoaddtothislist decides to show him/her/itself to the world, then we'll have proof. However, just because we haven't seen anything doesn't mean it's not there.
My mistake Adam, I am not a biologist/chemist/insertyourown-isthere, perhaps what I should have said, whatever collection of amino acids that began in the primordial soup, but is that not just arguing semantics?
I'm not sure !
Like I said, I do not have the answer, Evolution has all the facts, all the proven data, but are there not holes, blank spaces that need filling in ?
I too agree with evolution, but I feel there is something else
maybe in a hundred years time, somebody will figure out some DNA strand and realises it says "Made in Tiawan" or something...
aah... we were created then!
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