We have moved to new forum software and posting here is closed!

PLEASE BOOKMARK THE NEW FORUMS

	Subtopic	Started By	Posts
	Archive through Oct 03, 2003 Last Post: Oct 04, 2003, 03:29 am		20

Posted By: iamume Oct 03, 2003 - 12:56 pm

Multidimensional beings? I sometimes wonder if we might qualify even though our awareness doesnt usually extend that far. The hindu concepts of physical,astral, and causal bodies would would reinforce this notion.

I recently watched AI and felt that this supposed intelligence was more like programmed instincts or drives.It didn't occur to the droid to doubt the existance of the blue fairy.

Posted By: Hyperion Oct 03, 2003 - 02:19 pm

AI Great film, could of been so-much-more

Multy Dimensional beings hrmm dont no about that one.
Multy Dimensions? yeah for sure, I reckon that there are many different realities in many different dimensions and planes of time.


Hyperion out

Posted By: gypsychic Oct 03, 2003 - 03:28 pm

Bmat, I'd like to read that novel. Please post the title if you remember it.

Just wanted to add in that, believe or not, they've found that the octopus is actually pretty intelligent. There was a great special on TV a while back with this octopus that a lab was doing intelligence tests on, and it had this water maze/tank that it lived in. Then all this stuff started disappearing from around the lab, like pens and food and such. Apparently the octopus had figured out how to get out of its tank (they can be out of the water for short periods of time) and was sneaking out and snagging small objects and then hiding them away in its maze. I thought that was pretty nifty.

Also, with the dolphins, it was either the shrimp or the crab industry that was having problems - can't remember which for sure, so lets just say crabs. Anyway, they had to completely revamp their traps, because they kept getting opened in spite of the fact that they were secured in a very complex manner. First the smaller crabbers started accusing the larger coporate types of doing it to run them out of business, but eventually someone thought to install underwater cameras - and it was the dolphins. They really had to go through a pretty complex series of steps to get it open, so it was rather impressive. But even more interesting was that two groups of dolphins that didn't associate with each other both started opening these traps within a couple months of each other. What they figured out was that there was one dolphin that had been released from a rehab center and was tagged, and he had figured out how to open the traps based on things they'd taught him in the center, and then he had taught the dolphins off the coast of north florida/south georgia. Then he apparently swam north and taught the same thing to the dolphins off the coast North Carolina.

Posted By: Dark Knight Oct 03, 2003 - 08:55 pm

What about the Q in TNG....didn't they want destory humanity....

Posted By: bluemoon Oct 04, 2003 - 03:29 am

I don't know about the Q in TNG wanting to destroy humanity, but the Borg wanted to assimilate it.

About the general intelligence topic (of anything). If you want to measure intelligence, first you've got to take into account evolution and how it affects an animal/amphibian, etc.

Intelligence is just based on our assertion of our evolution - eg, we got smarter as we evolved, hence evolution (which itself is caused by the creature's adaptions to surroundings, basically) is the cause of all intelligence.

If we want to accurating measure intelligence, we should just take into account the subject's evolution and base it from that. After all, what a herbivore needs from evolution is not the same as what a carnivore or an omnivore - like us - needs.

All right *pantpant* now that I've picked my brains and thoroughly confused all of us, I'll be going now *quickly runs out*

Posted By: iamume Oct 04, 2003 - 11:35 am

Poppy,I forgot to mention that I really liked your dogs artpile.Throughout our days it could appear that we seldom exibit intelligence,displaying primarily instinct and conditioned behavior.
A human manifest destiny? You almost sound like a believer! This notion of destiny reminds me of the phoenomena of precient dreams.I've had some which havn't comletly occured,some scenes have others yet to,nonindicated time gaps exist between including attempts to avert occurance of later sequences which have happened anyways.Leaves me questioning free will.

Cool stories about dolphins and octopi Gypsychic.I've heard that the colorchanging abilities of the octopus seem to reflect emotive state as well as being camoflage.Perhaps even more?

Hyperion, hindus maintain that the soul is encased in pysical,astral and causal(thought) bodies.My conjecture was that these were extensions of ourselves into other realms of being(other demensions) which we ,Identifying with our physical selves, rarely access.

Remaining within the realm which we can currently prove is safe and seemingly sensible. We certainly can't expect anybody to believe the unproven.However the world was round long before we could prove it.

Posted By: gypsychic Oct 04, 2003 - 12:51 pm

That's neat as heck - I hadn't heard that about the octopus emotions/color changing. Now I'm going to have to on a research frenzy. Actually, that fits in great with a story I'm working on. Cool!

Posted By: Cryptozoo Mar 18, 2004 - 12:15 pm

I thought that we humans were sentient enough to be included.

Posted By: androidfig Mar 18, 2004 - 01:17 pm

Another aquatic creature that exibits a higher level of social/intellectual behavior is the Orca. I always knew they were intelligent, but I did not know how diverse their individual pods were. Some of them are very aggressive and will hunt much larger prey such as grey whales, whereas others like free willy (jk, I mean like Namu and the others we keep in aquatic parks) will only eat small fish and crustacians. The more aggressive killer whales could never be trained or interact with people. Interestingly, they will teach their young behavior which is unique to their pod while other pods that may follow the exact same migratory routes will not partake in this behavior (i.e. rubbing their bellies on smooth stones for pleasure). This behavior is believed to span generations. I'm sure they are aware of their own existance and have concerns including the teaching of habits which are unique to their family group. I think the only reason intelligent sea going mammals do not use tools is because they are further evolved in respect to their environments. When we left the ocean (if we left the ocean), we also left an environment that was much more accomodating to our needs, thus we rely on invention and inginuety. I wonder if sea mammals are spiritual in nature?

Posted By: Aldan Mar 18, 2004 - 02:45 pm

I think that it's possible but not likely. Do they have spirits? I think so. However, their spirits would probably be similar in action and ability to their physical manifestations (with the exception, of course, that they wouldn't be able to do much w/o a body, now, would they?).

Posted By: Cryptozoo Mar 22, 2004 - 12:39 pm

Well, dolphins can do something which is very important for a sentient being to do to give up its smarts, which is to "recognize itself" in a mirror. It takes a concept of self -- very advanced processes here -- to do this, apparently.

Posted By: iamume Mar 25, 2004 - 06:21 pm

I have read of legends where dolphin have emerged from spaceships both at Lake Titicaca and into a temporary pool in North Africa while visiting the Dogon tribe.

Posted By: androidfig Mar 26, 2004 - 04:40 am

Dolphins would have no trouble navigating a ship if it were retrofitted to accomodate their nose and flippers. But honestly, everyone knows dolphins have extraordinary telekinetic and telepathic skills. Not to mention the ability to use sound based commands. This really isn't very far fetched. Just because humans are too stupid to crack the animal communication code does not mean it doesn't exist on a very high level. We tend to group anything that is not understood with lower levels of intelligence. Humans are doomed.

Posted By: Aldan Mar 26, 2004 - 10:06 am

Douglas Adams' Hitchiker's Guide series.
'Nuff said.

Posted By: iamume Mar 26, 2004 - 06:43 pm

Awww. We are not so doomed. Great numbers of us dont buy into such a narrow opinion.

Posted By: Qtzchmokelgggg May 08, 2004 - 01:35 am

What about former sentient species, like the neanderthals. Also many species are semi-sentient...do they count?

Posted By: MrB May 08, 2004 - 03:13 pm

Dolphins in space... FANTAAAAASTIC !!!!

Posted By: Aldan May 10, 2004 - 07:59 am

PIIIIIIGS IIIIIIIIINNN SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!!!
*grins at MrB*

Posted By: MrB May 12, 2004 - 06:21 am

no no no no no NO NO

muppets... aaaararrgggggggHHH!

Posted By: gnollslayer Jan 22, 2005 - 06:31 pm

Earlier on in this post, a bunch of people tried to rule out dinosaurs from having capability of sentience. While it is trued that most species of dinosaur did not have the physiological capacity for an intelligent brain, one species toward the end of the Cretaceous seems like the most probable candidate for a sentient species other than humanity. Its common name is Troodon, and it had a higher encephalization quotient, or EQ (brain cavity to estimated body weight) than any creature alive today, excluding humans. It walked upright, and its hands were capable of many tasks required to develop primitive technology - it could have used tools if it figured them out. Still, its EQ was only 5.8. In comparison, humans have an EQ of 7.1, Dolphins have an EQ of 4.5, and chimps are around 2.5. Of course, there are discrepencies in EQ. Ostriches have above a 5, and are not generally thought to be more intelligent than dolphins or chimps. Still, the rule holds true for most animals that larger brain mass to body mass ratios result in higher intelligence.