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Posted By: Hyperion Dec 18, 2002 - 07:06 pm

Hello to you all....Merry Christmas by the way
Which if any do you think deserves more money/time/resources/research.
Further and continued exploration/research of Earth's Oceans or a new and revitalised Space Race and exploration off.
Regards
Hyperion

Posted By: jubal Dec 18, 2002 - 09:45 pm

Considering that space may be the only chance for the continued survival of the species given that the planet is doomed for destruction on many levels I think we had better get out there.
Merry Christmas

Posted By: Nomad Dec 19, 2002 - 07:21 am

I say more to both. IF..and thats a big IF... We can get our collective butts together and notpuollute the oceans more that they are, they will clean themselves up over time. We have SO MUCh space to explore in the ocean that it is a must. ON the other hand, we need to explore space more becuase of the inevitable destreuction of our planet. Whether it be from internal sources, man made sources or threats from space.

Posted By: Odrade Dec 19, 2002 - 10:51 am

I think the ocean. Well, for one i love the ocean, too long away from water and i start to dry up. Bunch of reasons: 1) it is closer so it could be started sooner 2) by developing techonolgy to survive in the ocean, we would be creating techonlogy that could probably be used in the space with some adjustments, the enviroments are very different but pose some og the same problems 3) if we screwed up big time, it would be easier to get back to a place to survive, like land 4) it would get people more aclimated to a an enviroment that has less gravity than land, 5) for the now, there are ideas for ocean farming, to help feed the growing poulation, so it would have immediate tangible results 6) easier tangible results would make more companies, people, and governments more inclined to invest 7) if companies, people, governments realize that their investments in different enviroments (ocean) they would be more likely to invest in a more hostile enivroment (space) when they see results of ocean, and then might be able to envision the same in space, especailly since techonolgy would have been built for ocean living.

Enough proof or why i think it would be a better investment to begin with? If not, i can think up some more.

Posted By: iamume Sep 29, 2003 - 10:35 am

The oceans deserve far more attention.It may appear from my posts that i'm opposed to space exploration but that is not so.Though things are getting pretty grim we have far more to work with here than anywhere else. How well do we understand our own environment? Untill we can get it together and manage ourselves and this planet with any semblence of competence,any notion of terraforming another planet is based on foolishness.To what degree are these research decisions based on politics or pork barrel policies rather than accurarate assessment of need?

Posted By: Hyperion Sep 29, 2003 - 11:17 am

No one ever got ahead without taking a few chances and a few risks.

Space is a must for us I think. Without us conquering it we are doomed as a species.

Hyperion out

Posted By: Aldan Sep 30, 2003 - 10:08 am

Hyper, when you say "Hyperion out" it makes me think of that "chirp chirp" noise of an old Star Trek communicator.
As for risk-taking, I agree with you completely. I believe that without risking hurting yourself, you can't get stronger, both as an individual and as a species. Also, if Darwin was correct, I believe that with all of the foolish laws being created to "protect those who can't protect themselves" (basically, dumb arses), we're dangerously circumventing Darwin's law, and making our species much less likely to succeed in our attempts at space, because the "dumbarses" are surviving to "take over the world."
I believe that THAT will be the end of our race... when the idiots that we've protected from killing themselves off have taken control of things like, oh, gubberments, and thus have control of things like, oh, nuclear (or even more dangerous) missiles, and someone hurts someone else's feelings, and that's it... we're done for.

Posted By: iamume Sep 30, 2003 - 11:50 am

You didn't ask an either or question,rather which deserves more attention space exploration or the sea.Of course priorities change in pace with developments.Odrade made a very good point in reference to applying technology developed for deep sea colonization to space. As for the deterioration of our species through the success of our attempts to make life more pleasant,easier,and secure,this is a significant problem which is surrounded with possibly draconian solutions.I am amazed at the number of peaple who will trip on an even smooth ramp,they dont have a clue as to what they are doing with their own feet.Then they blame the business or institution where they tripped,disgusting.Who moves the foot. If genetic strength was our prime concern then why worry about health care,let the strong or rich survive and minimize a costly industry, our population needs reduction anyways. While were at it without any significant predators other than ourselves lets Abolish the military and police open the prison doors and require everyone to wear arms and train regularly,The practice range would be more important than jury duty.What a paradise that would be,no mercy for the weak. There must be a better way than that.The biggest problem with anarchy is that thugs will always enforce their own order and encourage weakness in their subjects.Maybe eugenics is the answer,let scientists decide who breeds and when,nah that would require massive sterilization and the forfeit of way too many freedoms.I'm doing my best to remain a peacenik though how natural or beneficial is peace? What would the present population pressures be like without the wars of the last century?I really dont like thinking like this.I far prefer the benefits of education and prosperity in reducing the rate of population growth.

Posted By: Bmat Sep 30, 2003 - 12:44 pm

[Iamume, your posts are well-written and interesting. It would be helpful and make reading easier if there were spaces between paragraphs or every few sentences.]

Posted By: Aldan Oct 01, 2003 - 09:37 am

Good points, iamume (I am You Me?). However, I'm mainly talking about the laws which say "you must wear your seat belt," "if someone steps out into the street, even if you have a green light, if you hit the person, YOU are at fault," etc.

I personally think that anyone foolish enough to not wear their seatbelt while driving or riding in a car deserves what they get (children not included - maybe a under-16 years old range). I also feel that "jaywalkers" who don't cross at crosswalks and who cross against traffic DESERVE getting hit. I feel sorry for the driver, even if they don't get their asses sued off, because, hitting someone, when you're a conscientious driver, can make you paranoid.

Posted By: iamume Oct 02, 2003 - 04:43 pm

Thank you Bmat. I'm new to computers,years ago I fled to the Sierras and snubbed most media.I'm over it now, what a fool I've been.

Yes Aldan you got the name right.A friend dubbed me that one day while we were playing games on his computer,it reminded me of a Mayan greeting. I am another you.

While it is best to keep the laws, legality obviously is not the same as virtuous or healthy.I feel if the FDA had any legitimacy a great many products would not be approved.Also,whats up with giving test animals gross overdoses of substances.Anything can be shown to be detrimental if we try hard enough.

Striving for a ballanced rant. I'm better with theory than practice. I've got much to clean up,microcosm macrocosm eh.

Posted By: Hyperion Oct 03, 2003 - 07:32 am

wow sierras huh? I bet thatb was one great adventure
Do tell us more???
Hyperion out

Posted By: iamume Oct 03, 2003 - 12:42 pm

More like a joke that is not very funny.I love it here in Tahoe,I rarely leave.I finally enjoyed a planeflight for the first time this summer.Just a matter of lifestyle. My nose was in the window for the full trip.Those windows are too small!I'd love to try an ultralight plane or star wars air bike.One of my favorite Mtn bike trails is called "Toads wild ride" In ways it reminds me of that scene from "Return of the Jedi' Though the forest is not as lush nor the trees as big.Thank you for being interested, Hyperion I'll say more later,I do have some stories.

Posted By: Hyperion Oct 03, 2003 - 02:15 pm

Cool
Hyperion out