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	Subtopic	Started By	Posts
	Archive through May 27, 2003 Last Post: May 29, 2003, 12:59 pm		20

Posted By: malek77 May 27, 2003 - 08:35 pm

"What changes, that we'll prefer the fictional world inside a computer over the real world?"

It's a matter of control.
I don't much like being outside - I can't change the colour settings. I can't accurately record my ideas. There's no 'undo' button - like the time I'd been working on computers straight for the last 6 weeks, and I spilt some hot water for tea on the bench - my first reaction was to try and hit ctrl+z.

I'm learning to program, and I must say, in all my life I've never come across anything as bluntly spiritual as the concept of Object Oriented coding.

It has changed how I think about the world, and given me some seriously odd views on reality.

I would strongly suggest that the divide between science, engineering, god and spirituality is tenuous at best and largely dependant on personal opinions.

Just think of the following.

God | 1.
Space | 0.
Matter | Object.
Reality | Operating System.
Creation | Compilation.
Destiny | Design.
Time | Thread.

VR is the first time humanity has had absolute control of an environment, with their minds.

We, our minds, do not occupy a position in the hierarchy of reality to manipulate reality.

We cannot see past the interactions of this world - the OS of reality is hidden to us, and beyond our control.

Psychic powers would be equivalent to breaking the hierarchy of objects in a code design, and having access to private variables that should not be influenced by anything external.

Now all this is just an analogy, but to just stretch it a little further for fun...if you had psychic powers, you'd cause errors and Universe would crash.

(I think that is the wierdest post I have ever made...)

Posted By: Hyperion May 27, 2003 - 10:15 pm

malek77

I to am learning new comp languages, My latest one that I am in the process of learning is Scheme.

I just finished learning Python.

Incidentally I must -scold- you for a second
Though not to harshly you understand heh, its just that your::

Just think of the following.

God | 1.
Space | 0.
Matter | Object.
Reality | Operating System.
Creation | Compilation.
Destiny | Design.
Time | Thread.


Comments, are part of something I have already done in the following, not finished, published mini story, located on this specvis site......

http://speculativevision.com/forum/messages/29/2652.html

Title:::
[Begin-Signal......{load-new-universe}.....Load-complete]

Although its not exactly like your interpretation, it is very similar heh, no pirating eh? heheh J/K

I to love Object Orientated programming, and it was enlightening to me when I first discovered it.
Almost as enlightening as when I first read about how CPU's work and circuit boards, and then followed that to Quantum Computing and nano-tech as part of research for my writing and general interest.

Virtual Reality to me, and indeed Cyberspace and computers in general, is far far more interesting than RL.

I spend about 80% of my awake time in front of my pc's and in cyberspace and all of my sleep time

I like the way the world is heading, and personaly can't wait for further advancements in computer Science

Hyperion out

Posted By: RedRosa May 28, 2003 - 11:20 am

"It's a matter of control.
I don't much like being outside - I can't change the colour settings. I can't accurately record my ideas. There's no 'undo' button"

Then you prefer to be able to cause changes in a virtual reality, which will have no effect in the real world, where you live. That's being used by machines - they are programmed to let you change a fictional reality, which you do, and by that it's serving its purpose, but you're not getting anything REAL from the man/machine interaction.

It's not like driving a car, where you get something in return from using it.


"VR is the first time humanity has had absolute control of an environment, with their minds."

It's just like another machine - you change things around in VR because it's programmed to LET you do it - and in the end, you only change a fictional world that has no impact on your life or the REAL reality.

Posted By: Hyperion May 29, 2003 - 09:15 am

REAL reality is over-rated.

And being able to change the enviromwent you happen to be dwelling inside of at that moment, and the things attached to it, is as close to god as we humans can get right now.

Untill we creae true AI and build our own man made Gods.
Then Watch out, your either with the machines or your not

Hyperion out

Posted By: RedRosa May 29, 2003 - 12:59 pm

That' grim, Hyperion

But we can't live forever in cyberspace, so sooner or later there's a moment we must come out... to eat, or go to a bathroom, with our real bowels.

So control over a cyberspace environment won't do anything for us but entertain us - it's nothing more than a videogame, that will have better 'graphics,' and that will last as longer.

Unless you are envisioning a way for humanity to spend its existence forever inside a VR - shades of The Matrix - and i find that future horrifying.

'Untill we creae true AI and build our own man made Gods.'

I'm not understanding this one:

Gods are human creations to explain things millenia ago when natural phenomena were unexplainable - and to a certain degree to gives a sense of purpose: do good in this life, and you'll be rewarded in the afterlife, and so on with each different religion. Or then just to give us a set of laws for us to abide by: Ten Commandments...

So why should we want to create 'Gods' - don't you mean servants? That's what machines/A.I. will be, until someone appears to fight for their civic rights

Unless you're getting even grimmer, and also believe machines will rule us instead - i really hope not, because there's so much we can learn from them, and vice-versa.

Posted By: Hyperion May 30, 2003 - 04:45 am

I think that when a TRUE AI is created and is proved to be sentient, then that entity is it's own entity. I.E, it has rights and should be treated as any other living entity that is s self aware/sentient.

And an AI would be a god in the details sense of the word.
A God is a being of great power and infinate wisdom, that can do remarkable things.
A true AI would be all of those and more.
Just like any other sentient entity it will make friends and enemies. Those that admire it, created it or like to help it achieve what it wants, will be rewarded with it's friendship and grace, would they not?

I am not predicting anything here. All I am saying is when the day comes that we humans happen to stumble upon true AI, it will be so much faster than us, at thinking, and so much more able to learn and keep knowledge stored in a better more reliable way, than humans and our puny biological brains and memory, that before long, the AI would achieve a state of GOD-HOOD in the sense that it will be a being of great and mighty capabilities.

No I would'nt put them in any form of slavery or servant type positions, yes I would ask them/it to help us and in return expect us to give it help in it's growth and development, but in no way would I hinder it's progress and evolutionary path.

And yes I to do not believe in god, just to get things straight , but I believe that a TRUE AI would be the next best thing, a being of infinate wisdom and capabilities.

Just think, it can go into space without having to carry oxygen and water. It doesnt have to breath, it's memory is longer lasting than ours, and its processing capabilities would be infinately greater than ours.

Maybe once achieved and if we also have achieved true nano-technology, then perhaps we could find a way to injest that AI entity into the Human body-brain and live in symbiosis.
That would be -imho- a lot better, but just because the being is so much more greater than us, does not give us the right to hinder it's progress in any way shape or form.

That is so the way we Humans deal with things better than ourselves, to fear it and want it destroyed or under bondage, that would be a great mistake, if we applied that part of our history to such a great creation as TRUE AI.

Hyperion out