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	Subtopic	Started By	Posts
	Archive through Jun 07, 2001 Last Post: Jun 07, 2001, 08:16 am	Iznardi	10
	Archive through Aug 23, 2001 Last Post: Aug 26, 2001, 10:42 am		10
	Archive through Sep 04, 2001 Last Post: Oct 17, 2001, 06:12 am		10
	Archive through Dec 25, 2001 Last Post: Jan 16, 2002, 07:16 am		10

Posted By: Nomad Dec 28, 2001 - 05:58 am

I just watched Babylon 5 last night on Scifi and watched an ep I had never seen before. Shocked the hell out of me cause I thought I had watched all the pes atlease 3-4 times each. Go figure. Anyway, it was cool. They found the Vorlon Fleet in Hyperspace that is/has attacked shadow bases and anything that had been touched by the shadows. I was LMAO when I saw Ivonova trying to speak Minbario and royally screwing it up. Delenn then tell Marcus that if ANYONE laughs at her, they will have to answer to her. LOL. Actually, I had caught the tail end of this one before, because Sheridan showed up at the Zocolo...ALIVE...etc. Very pivotal ep.

Posted By: Iznardi Jan 16, 2002 - 03:53 am

In the Beginning. I noticed for the first time watching this that Sheridan's ship, the Lexington, doesn't have gravity. Everyone on the command deck is strapped into their seats, and Sheridan, in one scene, is using a sensor log that is floating in front of him. Was this just because the Lexington was such an old ship? Seems to me the ship that attacked the Grey Council was equipped with gravity--I remember the captain swinging around in his command chair as he surveyed what was being displayed on all the screens.

iz

Posted By: fanuilh Jan 16, 2002 - 04:41 am

I thought the "gravity" on Earthforce ships was created by spinning the section the crew was working in. Earthforce ships don't have artificial gravity.

Posted By: Sindatur Jan 16, 2002 - 06:24 am

Iz, regarding lack of gravity. Didn't you see the blood rising in a non-gravitational way when the captain was killed?

Posted By: Nomad Jan 16, 2002 - 07:16 am

Those particular ships did not have a spinning section, did they? I also thought that the ships Gravity, if there was some, was knocked out along with most of theother systems. Well, except fot the launch bays where they launched the nukes that destroyed the Black Star.

Posted By: ZimNova Jan 16, 2002 - 10:32 am

OK Iz, here's everything you ever wanted to know about EA Destroyers.

Model: Earthforce Omega Class Destroyer
First Entered Service: 2252
Construction Shipyards: Proxima-III Gimson-Grondag Orbital Navy Yards Titan Earthforce Fleet Orbital Construction Facility
Estimated Cost: 11 billion Credits
Length: Overall: 1.191 Km
Between Perpendiculars: 1.021 Km
Rotational Section
Hull Height: 358 m
Weight: 325,000 metric tons
Manoeuvrability:
Class D Jump Engine:
1 EFRAD Mk2 Jump engine. A closed cycle solid-state reaction power transmitter and
converter capable of providing a jump field, either it nor its power supply can be used for any other purpose.
Personnel: 830 Crew
Troops: 120 Marines
Fighter Compliment: 36 Aurora Class Starfuries
or 36 Thunderbolt Class Starfuries
Auxiliary Craft: 2 Kestrel-Mk4 Atmosphere Capable
Shuttles
1 EFRAD Type-II Breaching Pod
Weaponry: 6 EFRAD 12.5 m FPP Cannons, Max. EqY: 5
Kt, Max. range 40 Km 2 fore, 4 aft 6 EFRAD 12.5 m
Super-Gyroklystron PFBO 200 MV M-Wv Electron Battle Laser Cannons, Max. range 75 Km 2 fore 4 aft.
5 Standard Issue 2 megaton nuclear devices
Munitions Hold Defensive Measures:
12 NV122 Deuteron InTns 25 MV Particle Beam Projectors, Max. range 10 Km 4 fore of rotating section 8 aft of rotating section
12 Sentry Rapid Fire 1.5 m DPFC Interceptors, Max. range 2 Km 4 fore of rotating section 8 aft of rotating section.

Structure: Free-form lightweight alloy and steels.
Power Source:
Type / Number:
Usage: 4 Tokamak D-IIID 1 Gigawatt Fusion Rectors (with operation at 100 million Kelvin)
Communications & Life Support
Rotational Maglev System
3 Harrison-Bjorg RFP 5 Megawatt Auxiliary Fusion Reactors, 1 in rotation section
1 in engineering
1 in forward section behind fighter bays
20 Dahl-Rand 20,000 Amp/Hour Gel-Batteries, Emerency Total Power Failure Systems Engines:
Rear Facing: Type/Number:
4 Mikolovitch Z-IIX-F Magnetic Constriction Thrusters Max Burn Time: 30 sec's.
Thrust: 10.8 million Kw/ps Combined
Max. Thrust: 32.4 million Kw/ps with field constriction to maximum and power-fuel flow to max output.
Forward Facing: Type/Number: 2 Trimson-Grondag Non-Constricted Thrusters.
Max Burn Time: 60 sec's
Thrust: 3.2 million Kw/ps
Side Facing: Type/Number: 4 Elerac Corporation Thrusters
Thrust: 2 million Kw/ps at 25% output and below
Acceleration: 0-5 Km/ps: 45 sec's Max Speed: 7.2 Km/ps after full thrust for 37 sec's with rotational section locked. In close orbit around
Earth, Max. speed would be 4.2 Km/ps or less.
Fuel: 5,000 tons of Deuteron H2
1,000 tons of Tritium H3
Computer Systems: 1 Gates-Chapron TTBPS 101 Ghz
"Galactium" processor, Quantum-48 Ram,
Infinite Holographic Memory Computer sensor and
Scanner Systems: DX-419 IFF System
1 Chajon Corp. Inertial Gravity Scanner
2 EFRAD Constant Polarity HS Beacon Monitors
4 FTIRS 1 Argosy Systems Laser hetrodyne
spectrometer
2 Phased Particle Wave Resonance Scanners
3 Darklight multipurpose molecular sensors
4 Phased Array Active Local Area Scanners
2 Passive Multipurpose sensors
Communications Systems:
Stellarcom
Shipcom
Interweb TOFCOS Directed Closed Field Laser Ships Tactical Data System.
Polarised diverse 6,000 channel rapid-pulse
recalibration.
EMP-super charged "torpedoes" fired from plasma cannon.
Defence: Acceleration Cloud Ignorant TWF that permits visibility through the neutron stream
Tunnel Diode IR detection with membrane biometrics
Vector tuned super-heterodyne receivers.
SPADECS
MMIC
Mk8 WCS
MK67 APECS
EW Support Systems: EFRAD Mk6 Oracle System for
SIGINT, COMINT and threat processing, spectrum
management, assessment and frequency deconfliction.

Additional:
These ships were produced after the Earth-Minbari war to increase Earth's offensive and defensive capabilities. They were built at the Proxima-III Trimson-Grondag Orbital Navy Yards using a modified type III Nova DN hull. They take about 2 years to assemble and 6 months to shake down. A second facility was opened at Titan in 2251 (Earthforce Fleet Orbital Construction Facility) to produce a peak of deliveries at 6 per year during 2253-58, tailing off to 4 in 2260 as new ships went into production. Martial Law and the
Proxima rebellion ended production which had to concentrate at Titan, but capacity there was only 3 per year after a hasty upgrade from 2.

This ship has a rotating mid-section to provide artificial gravity. Previous ship designs had no artificial gravity so the crews had to be rotated regularly to maintain a healthy crew. Often two full crews had to be assigned to each ship.
The Omega class was a dramatic break from this human problem. Crews were naturally keen to serve for longer periods away from home and this enabled Omega class vessels to patrol deeper and explore further in a routine way, than had been possible in previous classes.
Edited by ZimNova

Thanks to & Reprinted with permission from EarthGov.Com

Posted By: Iznardi Jan 21, 2002 - 09:45 am

Everything I ever wanted to know? Well, I didn't see anything in there about flush toilets! Or what brands of candy you can get from the vending machines! Really, Zim, you could have been more thorough.



iz

Posted By: Sindatur Mar 06, 2002 - 06:20 am

Watched last night's episode where Lyta and G'Kar go off into the wild blue yonder.

G'kar says "You never know we might find, or what might find us.

Lyta says, "I smell another book coming."

You think it's too much to hope for that JMS will have more books produced?

I really wanna see this story told. And of course there's always the history of Shadows and Vorlons (which he probably won't give us, because it might take away from their mystery and allure) and of course Valen after the time jump.

What do the rest of you wanna see in future books if they are forthcoming?

Posted By: Nomad Mar 06, 2002 - 06:47 am

Actually, I could see a Valen book coming out that should start with the crysalis that transforms Sinclair into Valen. From there..the whole stroy of the war 1000 years ago and the end? of Valen. A book about "The aventures of G'Kar and Lyta" (as told by GKar???)

LOL

Posted By: Nomad Sep 16, 2002 - 02:02 pm

I just re-watched "Night of the Dead" and it was certainly cool. caught stuff that I did not before. Anway, unfortunately, due to my 5 yr old distraction I missed the message that Zoe gave CAPT. Cupake. Can someone help me out here and did this have anything to do with the messgae that zotty gave sheridan. "Because it tells me to"??
Hmmmm

Posted By: Sindatur Sep 16, 2002 - 02:39 pm

Sheridan asked Zooty why he never speaks in his real voice.

The message from Kosh (via Zoe to Capt Lochley) to Sheridan was something like: At the end return to the beginning, or something to that effect. Not connected to each other (Kosh's message is widely believed to be connected with "Sheridan's Sunday drive" and where he went for that drive.)

Posted By: Gail_Storm Sep 17, 2002 - 01:44 am

The exact quote was: "When the Long Night comes, return to the end of the beginning."

Typical cryptic Vorlonese.

FYI...this episode's script was published by Dream Haven Books. Very cool, I'd recommend picking it up if you can find it.

:-)

Posted By: Nomad Sep 17, 2002 - 05:55 am

Thanks Guys! I knew I could count on ya! Now that makes mme feel better. I would have liked o have heard it for mysef=lf, but it certainly would have given me a grin. Like I said...cool ep.

Posted By: Sindatur Dec 15, 2003 - 09:49 am

After making the Faux-pas in the PATD topic making light of the Death Penalty, and seeing Passing through Gesthamane being discussed at B5TV (Legend of Rangers official site), I thought I would put up a post here.

For those unfamiliar with B5 or the episode Passing through Gesthamane here's a brief synopsis.

They do not have the Death Penalty for most crimes, instead they have a Death of Personality (Mind Wipe, and replacing with a new personality). If you are sentenced to Death of Personality, you are installed with a new personality, and perform Community Service in that new personality as your punishment. In the episode, there is just such a person who is a monk, and his memory is jarred, and he is forced to see what he did in his "prior life" and has a very difficult time dealing with the realization, as his new personality cannot believe he was once capable of doing such a horrible thing as committing murder.

So what exactly are your views on the episode, or on the Death Penalty (or alternative punishments) in general.

I believe in the usage of the Death Penalty for multiple murders, especially when special circumstances are shown, (Planning, acidental death, brutally carrying out the crime; IE: stabbing 31 times when once would have done the job, etc). My one problem with it, is how easy it might be to convict someone innocent. If there was a 100% effective way to determine guilt, I would have no qualms whatsoever about it. There is alot of expense to life imprisonment, and honestly, if you've deliberately taken someone else's life, without a legitimate reason (self defense, temporary insanity from extreme emotional trauma, etc) how can anyone argue that you have the right to live.

I've seen some abdicate expulsion from the Country, but, that doesn't accomplish anything in my opinion, other than turning someone loose on another country, who has already killed and been allowed to get away with, so therefor is more likely to kill again.

The Mindwipe seems a good solution on the surface, and making the new personality perform Community Service is beneficial, but, would the loved ones of the victims be satisfied justice had been served? I'm not sure I would. And what if the Mindwipe is broken as with brother Edward. Is it really fair to give someone a new moral code, and have them realize they had done something so horrible, isn't that far worse than giving the offending person the death penalty?

Episodes like this are what made B5 such an excellent Series.

Posted By: Ian Viking Dec 15, 2003 - 12:02 pm

Having got my B5 S3 DVDs in the past month, I have recently rewatched the ep. I always loved it, but something about it also kept me feeling uncomfortable throughout. Maybe it was the great performance from Brad Dourif?

Anyway, this is one of those topics that fine, until it's someone you know. ie Sheridan and the gut at the end of the ep (who had killed Brother Edward earlier?), when Sheridan looked like he might kill the guy himself.

The death penalty in the UK was abolished after killing an innocent man, and not the first one no doubt.

Jury's decide "beyond reasonable doubt", but if they were to find "with absolute certainty" for certain crimes then I would not be anti death penalty for that. Absolute certainty is kind of a myth though without many witnesses and/or a confession.
B5 has it lucky in that they have telepaths to tell whether people are being truthful, so they should get things right more often.

As for the stabbings ref - once is murder, for 31 they must be nuts!

Old Testament: "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"

Delenn: "So your system would leave everyone blind and toothless?"
Garibaldi: "Not everyone, just the bad guys"
(Quoted from memory and so subject to errors!)

Posted By: ProfCrash Feb 17, 2004 - 10:13 am

By far one of the best episodes from the entire run of B5.

For those who cannot afford to buy the DVD's, you can rent them from Netflix. Also, Farscape, Stargate SG1, and all the Trek series.

Posted By: ProfCrash Feb 17, 2004 - 10:15 am

Nommy, ( I know the post I am responding to is old but such is life)

There is a series of B5 comics titled "In Valens Name" that talk about how Valen was preceived by the Warrior and Religious caste on Minbar.