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Scifi and Fantasy Forum: Television: Babylon 5:
General B5 Discussion:
Archive through Mar 11, 2004
Archive through Mar 11, 2004
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Who cares what it's called..... more B5 ... wooohooooo!!!!
Posted By:  Nomad Jan 31, 2004 - 04:17 pm |       | I have wittled down the list to the following, so, IMHO, I am going with "Babylon 5: The Myth of Shadows"
/bold{
Theatrical Movie, original Story
The Memory of Shadows
The Movement of Shadows
The Mark of Shadows
Babylon 5: The Myth of Shadows
}
I agree Ian Viking, who cares....
the problem I have is I'm still waiting to see the Rangers movie.....darn it all......
| Posted By: linka Feb 03, 2004 - 10:40 am | | ranger movie spot on better than crusades
| Posted By: linka Feb 03, 2004 - 10:41 am | | the mark of the shadows
sounds a good title
| Posted By: Nautilus Feb 04, 2004 - 12:56 pm | | More B5?!! Alright!!
I kind of like "B5: The Movement of Starlight" since it's poetic, epic, and sounds timeless.
| Posted By: Sindatur Feb 10, 2004 - 06:37 am | | You know, the more I think about it, the more it occurs to me that we're missing something here.
JMS said something like: "It's not print, and it's not a series, but if you were to guess film or TV you'd be close (Sorry, as hard as I looked, I couldn't find the original quote).
I've seen people really wildly speculate that it might be a play or Radio program, even saw someone's guess as B5: The Musical of Sorts. I wonder if JMS' quote is leading to being a straight to DVD Project? It's just confusing that it's not Print or a series, and Film or TV is only "close"
| Posted By: Nomad Feb 11, 2004 - 06:08 am | | Straight to DVD may work. Hmmmm
| Posted By: Bmat Mar 09, 2004 - 01:15 pm | | Remember Londo's three chances?
1. Save the eye that does not see.
2. Do not kill the one who is already dead.
3. Surrender yourself to your greatest fear knowing it will destroy you.
Could someone please remind me what these turned out to be?
I don't think we ever figured out all of them. The problem is the first two were missed. The last was allowing G'Kar to kill him. By surrendering himself to G'Kar, Londo prevents the Keeper from telling everyone that Sheridan and Delenn are escaping.
| Posted By: Sindatur Mar 10, 2004 - 08:02 am | | Save the eye that cannot see: Most agree that this is not the Centauri Eye Artifact, since that was too early in the series. I've see two popular camps. The "I" that cannot see being Londo himself and his inability to see things clearly, and G'Kars Eye.
Do not kill the one who is already Dead: Once again, two popular camps here. One camp says it's Morden on Centauri Prime, one camp says it's Sheridan on Centauri Prime.
Surrender yourself to your worst fear: This one seems to be the most contested: I've seen it refer to Londo submitting to lack of Freewill by accepting the Keeper, Londo's dream of G'Kar killing him, and a couple of others. All of them seem to revolve around Londo not being capable of saving his people, as Londo seems to care more for Centauri Prime and it's people than anything else, even his own life.
I believe JMS ultimately did answer what exactly his intentions were for each event, and it may be that you can find it in the Lurker's Guide, although I'm not sure which episode you would find it in.
| Posted By: Bmat Mar 10, 2004 - 08:25 am | |
Quote:Do not kill the one who is already Dead: Once again, two popular camps here. One camp says it's Morden on Centauri Prime, one camp says it's Sheridan on Centauri Prime.
I suppose it could be examined which would make a difference as far as Londo's getting saved. Or is it that one would be the "right" or "virtuous" thing to do.
I don't think that I agree with either of the choices for the first, but I agree that somewhere that JMS tells what they were and the Eye artifact wasn't it. Although I don't see (oops!) why it should matter if the artifact was early in the series.
| Posted By: Nomad Mar 10, 2004 - 08:34 am | | Save the eye that can not see. That didnt have anything to do with the Centauri Seers did it?
| Posted By: Sindatur Mar 10, 2004 - 08:55 am | | Here's a post by Joe Demartino from the B5 LotR site (He's the most obssessed and knowledgeable poster I've seen outside of our longtime group, I would love to see him and ProfCrash posting together on a special thread. The wealth of info and insight you could gain would be amazing)
1. Londo only has to face his greatest fear if he fails to take advantage of his other chances.
2. The prophecy refers to Londo's personal redemption, not necessarily the political or military fortunes of the Centauri people, for whom he risks so much.
3. JMS has explicitly commented on several of these items, but that doesn't stop people from ignoring what he's said and insisting on their own answers.
The "eye that cannot see" is G'Kar's eye, which "fails to see the glory of Cartagia." (JMS - usenet) It cannot be the artifact known as The Eye, because Londo's only contact with that is before the prophecy is given, and we never see or hear about the thing again. It is not clear how saving G'Kar's eye would have changed Londo's destiny, but again, this is a matter of his soul, not the fate of his body. Maybe in intervening to save G'Kar's eye Londo would have pushed Cartagia too far and been executed himself. He at least would have died doing the right thing with no thought of personal gain, or future glory. His death might have led other Centauri nobles to rebel against Cartagia and eventually join the Alliance and free Narn.
"The one who is already dead" is Sheridan. He's the only one to whom this description really applies. (Morden being dead on paper or almost dead on Z'ha'dum really doesn't count.) Londo attempts to follow the prophecy by "not killing" Sheridan. But as soon as Sheridan and Delenn leave the throne room, his Keeper begins to awaken. The Keeper will rescind his secret order freeing the pair, and his earlier command to have them executed will be carried out unless the Keeper can be stopped...
... And the only way to stop the Keeper is to give in to his greatest fear, death at the hands of G'Kar. As things play out the second and third chances are two sides of the same coin. Londo cannot fulfill the second without also fulfilling the third, one more irony in a life full of them.
P.S.
While JMS says that the "eye/I" thing occurred to him while writing the episode, as a extra layer of meaning as it were, what he actually wrote in the script was "eye" and that was primarily what he had in mind. Peter David plays with this dichotomy in the Centauri trilogy - but in a section narrated by Londo in the first person. In other words it is not the omniscient author telling us that the "eye" was really "I" and referred to Londo, it is Londo the character wondering aloud if this might not be the case. But you have to remember that Londo eventually concludes that everything that's happened in the past 50 or so years, including the Earth-Minbar war, is really all about him. This section may be more about Peter David tweaking Londo for his vanity than any serious thought about the meaning of the prophecy. Besides, as I noted above, JMS said that "the eye" is G'Kar's. Since he wrote both the prophecy and the subsequent episodes where it played out, I really can't see any reason to disagree with him.
| Posted By: Bmat Mar 10, 2004 - 09:17 am | | Thank you!
| Posted By: Aldan Mar 10, 2004 - 01:50 pm | | Here's what will seem a stupid question: What name is the acronym JMS for? Sadly, I've not been able to really keep up with BAB5 since it left standard television, although when I've got access to cable/dish, I catch every episode I can. I used to watch every ep. when it aired on tv, and when Sheridan took over, I was bummed, because I really liked the first captain. What I've seen of Sheridan (which, I admit, is only about 9 episodes, none consecutive) seems okay, but I feel a connection to the original. Also, it's possible I'm prejudiced, because he used to be "the scarecrow" on The Scarecrow & Mrs King...
| Posted By: Sindatur Mar 10, 2004 - 02:00 pm | | JMS = J. Michael Strazcynski (The guy who created, wrote most of, produced, etc Babylon 5). Not sure what the J. is (John? Maybe?), and probably spelled the last name wrong
| Posted By: Nomad Mar 11, 2004 - 06:33 am | | James Michael
| Posted By: fanuilh Mar 11, 2004 - 07:05 am | | I thought it was Joe Michael Straczynski.
*shrug*
| Posted By: Aldan Mar 11, 2004 - 07:13 am | | Thanks, y'all! I am very familiar with the name... I just didn't make the connection. I told you it'd sound stupid... and it DOES. To ME.
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