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Scifi and Fantasy Forum: Sci-Fi and Fantasy General Discussions: Are we alone?
Are we alone?
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Posted By:  iamume Oct 04, 2003 - 03:54 pm |       | Athalias' comment of making sure a lesser or subservient species never overpower us reminded me of the Mayan book The Popul Vuh.Within the creation segment After the gods created us to serve them they noticed that we were just as aware and able as them so they dimned us.
| Posted By: Smith Oct 28, 2003 - 02:03 pm | | With all due respect towards Raistlin´s intelligent remarks, in my opinion its just false make-belief to impress the other nerds. How could an alien species travel at least hundreds of lightyears just to study us? I mean they cant travel faster than the speed of light IF they can possibly reach that speed, and concider they have to go back as well to drop off their studies of the earth. That would take at least 200 years, and i dont think even the best alien can live that long.
Best Wishes.... Agent Smith
| Posted By: Nomad Oct 28, 2003 - 05:53 pm | | HEy Smith. You should go read the discussions on Faster than Light speed. Also, maybe the species, if they can travel that fast, is enlightened to the point where we are fascinating and they nothing better to do. Perhaps we are the closest species found to them. Perhaps they were once like us. LOTS of speculation...but very interesting .Think about it. Besides..these are all what-ifs.
| Posted By: iamume Oct 28, 2003 - 06:30 pm | | As our curent understanding of physics exists this would appear so.Can we realisticaly pretend that our understanding is complete?Doesn't further developments in our knowlege result from speculation beyond the limits now known which subsequently finds legitimation or is set to rest with research? The respected "proven" convictions on which we rely are occasionaly reassed with later developments.
It can be either comforting or disapointing to naysay the possibility of such interstellar interaction.If aliens are visiting us for research they would most likely have motives for this research which would justify to them such inconveniences.
There are far too many indications that such a scenario has been occuring for a very long time to completely relegate such speculation to individuals who dont mind being considered flakes.
One of my favorite authors Kurt Vonegut once asked in his book Timequake,"What travels faster than light"? His answer was awareness, while pointing out that when one looks from one star to another our awareness travels tremendous distances in seconds.
While we can easily say that nothing has traveled anywhere can we also completely dispute that a very interesting concept could have been communicated? Peaple who claim to travel astraly would find an interesting explanation for their experiences.
If it were possible for an individual to teleport from one location to another on a planet why not between planets or even why not an entire planet or solar system? Where did that missing star go young Anikin? Te he he.
The Bible would become a hoax if aliens visited Earth. It doesn't mention any prophecy or date when aliens would visit here. Most probably the only alien that will visit here would be our holy one Jesus Christ, his second coming. I doubt that he would have a spacecraft to get here from all the way from the other side of the galaxy (heaven). He'd arrive here by pure spiritual energy - the fifth dimension that's beyond scientific logic.
One thing that seems alien-like in appearance are those pyramids. I get this weird feeling that these triangular buildings exist on another planet far, far away. The Egyptians in those days were ancient people who used hieroglyphics or "picture writing" to describe what or who that entered their lives. I'd be smack-faced (surprised, shocked) if a picture of a UFO appeared on some marble tablet hidden deep in a secret tomb under those pyramids.
I guess I've been watching too many TV sci-fi episodes to come up with this kind of notion.
| Posted By: Aldan Dec 25, 2003 - 02:28 pm | | Can you say "Stargate" the movie?
That's the one. You can get the ultimate edition yet to be released in NZ. Boxed sets of the tv episodes seasons 1,2,3,4 now available while stocks last.
@Bimillennium Man- You say that a visit by aliens would be contrary to the Bible? Hmm -- have you read Ezek 1.4-28? It sounds a bit like Ezekiel was doing his best to describe a visit to Planet Earth by someTHING &/or someONE other than Captain Kirk, doesn't it?
Never mind the seraphim {straight legs, wings, & all) -- what were those "wheels within wheels surrounded by eyes" that Ezekiel saw?
Fascinating, wot?
In any event, if someone writes a book that is aimed to inform the population of Mars about God, he might well omit any mention of the people who are living in Pocatello, Idaho, de sho ka? As I understand it, the Bible was written to tell us about us & God & angels. If God saw fit to also create Klingons or Romulans {or whatever} elsewhere in the vast universe, would that necessarily obligate Him to disclose that fact in His Bible?
In any event, of all the things that God didn't see fit to reveal, I often find myself wondering: WHY do men have nipples? 
grace & peace.......bellgamin
| Posted By: iamume Jan 14, 2004 - 05:48 pm | | as we consider the creative inteligence termed God as being not of this earth we also consider the being described as angels, demons,cherubim,seraphim and etc also not of this earth.
Therefore all extraterrestrial.
Is it possible that there are other ways to describe these same intelligences?Other vary familiar names?
When familiar and literal interpretations of scripture become inadequate it is easy to then call it a hoax.Dont dismiss the bible,Koran,or any scripture quite so quickly.
Just keep an open mind.Beware of the straitjacket of orthodoxy.The pages of no book will contain the universe or even multiverse.
Are you aware of the people who discuss one of the books of the bible as an indication of an extra-terrestrial visit? I can't remember which book it is now. One of the prophets. I wish I was better with names.
Anyway, someone actually built a spaceship-like structure based on the description of this prophet. Some of what they said made a lot of sense - he described roaring like lions, great winds, etc., that would be consistent with a ship taking off. One thing they didn't bring up that I thought might be neat is: what if, instead of being aliens, the ship was us from the future, having learned time travel and gone back to observe major events? Or even a religious group using technology that will have been discovered in that future, going back to try to "prove" their Bible correct - and then actually being the cause of the prophet's writing themselves? Sort of the self-fulfilling prophecy thing.
| Posted By: Adam Jan 15, 2004 - 08:50 am | | The Drake Equation: N = R* • fp • ne • fl • fi • fc • L
Where:
R* = assumption.
fp = assumption.
ne = assumption.
fl = assumption.
fi = assumption.
fc = assumption.
L = assumption.
N = the product of assumptions.
Now apart from that Drake rubbish, let's consider a few facts.
1) We KNOW that the materials required for life exists beyond our planet. In fact, they even exist in deep space: http://www-691.gsfc.nasa.gov/cosmic.ice.lab/interste.htm What we also know is that those materials, and others, are more common on planetary bodies than in deep space. Therefore, the materials required for life are common on other worlds.
2) We know that when you get a whole planet full of those materials, and stimulate them over a very long time with heat and pressure changes, different chemical combinations, tidal and weather influences, and more, EVENTUALLY you get a certain combination called "life". We know this because it happened here.
3) The only difference between the raw materials and life is time under stimulation. We know this because it happened here.
4) The only difference between life and intelligent life is time. We know this because it happened here.
You might now say "Just beacuse it happened here, that doesn't mean it can happen elsewhere".
However, the fact is the physical laws remain the same everywhere. If it CAN happen here, it CAN happen elsewhere. That does not necessarily mean that it HAS happened elsewhere though. But consider the odds, given the size of the universe, the time it has existed, the amount of raw material under all sorts of stimulation out there.
The Drake Equation is crap.
A far larger problem is the Fermi Paradox.
Now, there is one way around the Fermi Paradox which, to me, makes sense.
We used to think that for life to work, we needed a fire at night to keep the wolves and such away. Now we don't need those fires.
We used to think that we each needed so much land to support ourselves. Now we live in cities, with a few square metres each, while a few others out on farms send in food.
We used to think it was kill humans to travel faster than 26 miles per hour. This idea was very swiftly disproven.
At this moment, some few of us are aware that our use of energy is vastly inefficient and we simply pump out loads of wasted power into space. As we develop further, I suggest, we will learn to conserve energy, use it more efficiently, and NOT pump out excess power.
We still have things to learn.
But one thing is obvious, we will have to eventually stop pumping out wasted power. Technology attempts to become more efficient. Any advanced civilsation out there (if we take our own progress as an example), will be broadcasting excess power as we do for maybe fifty years, maybe a few centuries, but will eventually cease such wastefulness. Thus the reason we don't have a constant bombardment of signals from every direction. Thus the Fermi Paradox isn't really such a big deal.
| Posted By: iamume Jan 16, 2004 - 07:58 pm | | If a prophecy is genuine does it really matter how it becomes fulfilled? What was forseen is an event with some players participating.That the event would not be fully comprehended by the seer is also likely.How much information is given and how many ways could they manifest?What if when the forseen event occurs peaple refuse to accept it because it doesn't quite match their preconceptions?Exit the carpenter.
In a lesser way I have agonized over these dynamics and misunderstood some dreams and "information downloads" concerning my own life.It is easy to jump to incorrect conclusions based on scant information.
There is one minor dream segment which will pobably occur this year which I had been determined to prevent,now I feel that I had misunderstood what may occur and am not so adverse.If my initial impression turns out to be accurate then my stance remains.
Why do we continue such wastefull practices?Our management techniques are in dire need of modification. How is very tricky. For now I'll focus on how I manage my own thoughts,emotions,time,and resources.
| Posted By: Shudder Jan 21, 2004 - 06:37 pm | | Are we alone? (bear with me, please)
In my experience, I have watched a blind man sitting on a street corner with a cup and a meager savings of nickels, quarters and dimes, singing to those who will pass by blindly (a poor pun, I know), and those who will see a helpless man trying to survive, and those who see someone trying the best way he can to get by--perhaps as best he can, perhaps the only way he knows how--in a world that has left him woefully behind.
I've participated in livesaving attempts with patients who later survived and were discharged to lead normal lives, and watched family members who could have done exactly what I did in those circumstances, who had not the knowledge--in some pitiful cases, not the inclination--to lend the hand that mattered.
Following the flight of Deep Space One http://nmp.jpl.nasa.gov/ds1/ has shown me that we have a vessel with the technology to cross the solar system safely and return to its point of origin, but that origin is filled with technologies designed to blow it out of the sky if it doesn't identify itself within a few seconds of entering the wrong airspace.
SETI, and its later civilian ressurector The SETI-League http://www.setileague.org , have devoted millions of manhours and billions of dollars to the preservation of the idea that mankind is not alone, while at the same time people live and die in poverty, without the medicine, foodstuffs or cloth they needed to survive.
So in truth we are alone, and we are not alone.
We are alone in our own arrogance, our own avarice, our own greed.
We are unified in dream, in belief, in doing.
This world has the power to feed, cloth and educate every person on it, yet what we cannot decide upon universally are what foods we will all agree to consume, what kinds of clothing styles we will accept and what form of education we will listen to (language, decorum, belief strata).
My own personal belief is that someone/thing is still out there--perhaps waiting for us to grow from our own infant state. They may not have the capability to reach across the stars to us yet, and may actually be looking up from some far-distant star, asking, "Are we alone?"
Surely if they are here, and can see, and do hear, . . .we simply have yet to provide them with a reason to say hello, since the current mixture of responses we would evince--from panic, to worship, to pleading, to fear, to anger--would smudge together into a single, raised digit.
G'night.
the sun is a port hole
| Posted By: iamume Jan 29, 2004 - 05:16 pm | | Well said Shudder.
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