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Scifi and Fantasy Forum: Sci-Fi and Fantasy General Discussions: The Sci-Fi Scene in general.
The Sci-Fi Scene in general.
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Posted By:  Hyperion Nov 27, 2002 - 01:56 pm |       | I deffinately don't think Sci-Fi and Fantasy are the same thing.
Also I don't like the idea of the Lord of the Rings movies, being placed within the Sci-Fi genre, they just don't belong in it, its pure fantasy not Sci-fi.
I to think the americans try to base the rest of the worlds opinions around what they think, they seem to be of the opinion that the world revolves around them; but with the US contributing to around 70% of the sci-fi entertainment market, with regards to Movies and Authors, it is hard for us not to have to listen to them.
But with all that said and done, I think the Sci-Fi as a whole, is growing, and we as fans can only benefit from that.
I for one have been greatly inspired just reacently, by the surge in new Authors and Sci-Fi writing tallent.
With books being my number one favourite thing, I can only bennifit from the new tallent that growns with the Sci-Fi/writing scene.
Regards
Hyperion
| Posted By: Odrade Nov 27, 2002 - 05:04 pm | | Many people do lump the two together however. Personally, i like both, but in different ways. But if you want to consider them seperate, realize that you are the minority. People who little to none of either lump them in a group.
Sci-fi is growing. There are sci-fi movies, and sci-fi books, well more are being published. But fantasy is growing much faster than sci-fi, whether we like it or not. Harry Potter and gang are very popular, even though personally, i think he is a annoying little squirt. too perfect for me. LOTR is very popular, (but that i do like), i just wish they started with the Hobbit.
I wonder, is the sci-fi focus changing? I think the things written about lately are different than 10, 15 years ago. what is the subject of sci-fi and how it is being presetned are different.
I mean, for example, my favorite sci-fi series, the Dune series (i am always coming back to them, how sad), even though the new ones are written by his son, the subject has changed. The original 6 were not filled with as much personal feelings as the new 4 out there. not that i don't like them, but there is a difference between writing about a group dominating, like the Bene Gesserit, and the personal emotional feelings of individuals.
by the way, do you forgive me Hyperion? After all, i am starting that Hyperion book tonight, and i will need someone to discuss it with!
| Posted By: Hyperion Nov 27, 2002 - 07:46 pm | | I will certainly discuss Hyperion with you, HEH, Just talking about it here now makes me want to start it again.
You realy are about to go into a world that is truly breath taking.
The whole Cantos is such a great read, that you will treasure it for ever I am sure.
Once you get to the second book, the story realy starts to fly, but even the 1st book is such a great read, that if you don't rush out and buy the next one after reading it, I will be very surprised.
As for the spelling jibe, well I just don't like people taunting others about the way they spell, it's bullying, in how ever a subtle way you try to frame it, it's still bullying. Anyone can spell when using a computer, it is a trivial thing, it's just that most people, me included, like to type quickly and in a variation of our own slang, it is easier and quicker.
But I hold know ill fealing towards you, never did, I just voice my views rather quickly when it comes to things like that.
Regards
Hyperion
If the growing sci fi/fantasy section in even the most mainstream bookstores is any indication, I'd say that sci fi is increasing in popularity. Also, many of the classics are being republished after years of being out of print.
I agree that there is a direct tie between the public's interest in technology and the popularity of sci fi. Within the past twenty years, so many people have seen the impact of technology, especially computers, on their daily lives--and we're constantly exposed to news stories touching on classic sci fi issues, such as cloning, bioethics, artificial intelligence, big brother surveillance, and many other themes that question the very technology that proposes to help us.
I also agree that the improvement of computer animation and special effects technology is spurring more filmmakers to undertake sci fi and fantasy films. The success of the Star Wars films has demonstrated that sci fi and fantasy can have the mass appeal desirable to producers. These films have traditionally been very expensive to make. They still are--but the market is larger, and videos and other products will bring the real rewards for the people who hold the purse strings.
I disagree that sci fi and fantasy are the same genre--but maybe that's because I come at sci fi through the classics, Isaac Asimov, Arthur C.Clark, Robert Heinlein, Ayn Rand and so many more. Science and the dilemmas that science presents to humanity are central issues within sci fiction--hence the name.
| Posted By: Odrade Nov 27, 2002 - 10:16 pm | | I take it all back. I take back whatever i said about sci-fi and fantasy being in the same genre. I don't know what came over me. But i think they both require more imagination than other genres.
And who cares what those people who only read "popular" sci-fi think!!!
| Posted By: Trinity Dec 01, 2002 - 03:31 pm | | For anyone interested in bita background stats that proves sci-fis on the up.
In the USA the Sci-fi network was outlined as the fastest growing cable network in primetime in 2000. The revenue generated by this network rose 43.3% from 1998-1999 and 54.3% from 1999-2000!
In the 1950's there's been a huge increase in sciencefiction magazines and became an increasing feature in many many books.
Star Wars was considered the most influential piece of sci-fi and has been recognised by many to have inspired others to explore the sci-fi genre too.
I think the re-release of Star Wars films and improved special effects also marks another boom of sci-fi in the film industry.
Since Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon there's been a million and one space series; Star Trek, deep space nine, Star Trek new generation, and others I can't remember....ooh Button Moon There's so many different mutant and super powered people programs on too. mmm and Robot performing, computer generated, and computer game based shows. It's spreading, influenced by everything. It might start from a film or a cartoon, a book, a comic strip, a dream, a new discovery and each one inspires the other to follow(X-men from cartoon to film to rip-off series). Plus with more and more people spicing up new ways to express things and communicate sci-fi is really becoming something of an artform in some aspects.
But how long can they keep this up for? I have no idea. Technology seems to be forever increasing, and sci-fi's undeniable link with technology would suggest it could never die out. Unless it gets a bit repeatitive and we get bored. Duno, but would be interesting to see.
I think that what made the Sci-Fi films rise so musch is the computer... now if you follow the computers development from 1980 -> 2003 and also look at the Sci-Fi development from 1980 -> 2003 you will see they go together wich is very logic becouse all the Special FX comes from the Computer then you can also compare Fantasy in the same way and get the same result but also why has it risen it also takes the peoples interest in the film to get it sold right... so with the computer you make it more realistic (as we can see in The Lord of The Rings) when i saw it i didn't really note that it was in another "univers" actually i thought that i very well coulda been going on in a nearby forest (mabye a bit overreacted comparation but cuts out the picture) and now why do we want realistic in Fantasy/Sci-Fi well becouse the more realistic it is the more people will think its not far from thir own time and will also take it as a part of thir normal day .
I hope i wrote it so its understandable and that all of you can see my point if not please tell me 
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Hello, this is my first posting and I love what everyone is saying about scifi becoming more popular. Those who lump fantasy in with scifi, I think do so because both involve creating new worlds or realities. I don't care for fantasy to read or to write but that could change. I don't like Tolkien but I may be wrong there too. I like scifi in the books especially cross genres where romance and scifi wed or scifi and mystery stuff. I like particularly soft scifi, those stories that have sociological issues or conflicts or are about psychology in the year 4000. I would like a discussion on world building, if there is one started, someone point the way please? If not, will someone start? I am terrible at world building, my nine year old nephew does a better job than me, he starts by drawing a map of the place and filling in rivers mountains etc. Then I take over from there. Talk to you later then. Romannesoph
well welcome Romannesoph
if you like romance and read books try out the Dragonlance eighter the twins serie or the heros of th lance serie you talked about world building can you point iut what exactly you meen cuz i know a lot of way to build worlds in many diffrent ways i currutly building a world with one of my friends for a Comp. game
so if you'ed please point out what kind of world building i can start a discussion about it etc. ial glad if i cn help
| Posted By: Aslan Dec 30, 2002 - 02:40 pm | | Orrenflam, I think Odrade's suggestion that sci-fi and fantasy are considered one genre is correct... provided you're referring to the general public's perception. I think most of the people who post on SpeculativeVision are very aware of the difference, but the mainstream consumer is not. A big reason for this conglomeration might be that Star Wars is considered by the general public to be sci-fi (because of the setting: spaceships, lasers and outer space), when it's really more fantasy than anything. There is a science fiction theme, but the majority of the film is the classic fantasy hero quest.
So who can blame them? Regardless, both genres are more successful now than ever before. Woo HOO!
Here's a follow-up question: does the mainstreaming of sci-fi and fantasy detract or add to its quality? I'd be very interested in hearing opinions on this from more venerable readers.
| Posted By: Hyperion Dec 31, 2002 - 03:48 am | | Hello all.
Welcome to -> romannesoph <- hope you enjoy the company of the splendid people who frequent Speculativevision Site/Forum.
As to your question about world building, well you are right in your views of it being a complex task. I to struggle with it greatly, but I find that just letting yourself go and even writing down the most outrageous unimaginable things that you can come up with, helps greatly in the long run. I always save everything of put to paper/hard drive regarding creative writing. You can always go back to something you see and get inspired all over again about a certain thing you wrote many years/months ago. Scale in World building is important though I feel. To grasp the true scale of the world you want to create is very important at first. The detail comes later and is the fun the part, but the scale, realising just how big a world and readers comprehension of it, is something I feel is one of the first tasks in creating a world. If your reader is only going to have a fleeting glimpse of a particular place as a character goes by somewhere, then realising and jotting down the size of the place before hand is a great help. Maps are the key I think. Most of the time I simply get a paper and pencil and go to work drawing simple maps of the places that will feature in my story. Then from that you have grounding a base line if you will were you can drop the story into and work from.
Anyway in the end it's all down to you and what you want the reader to see and experience in your world, but starting out with a simple map is always a good idea, because once you have a shape in your head and on paper, the world already starts to become real, and then the fun part of adding the detail comes in. The detail for me is very much the fun part of world building, Creating the technology, the political climates, leadership areas and fashions; Transport and food, all that is were the fun is, but having a base line of some sort to start off with, is something I always find helpfull.
Aslan: Mainstreaming of sci-fi can and does; I feel, do both detract and add to the quality.
In some aspects it detracts as the maker/producer/author try to appease a more global audience rather than keeping to a hardcore base of what most true sci-fi fans like and want, like detail and complex plots.
However it also adds to the over all appeal of sci-fi as the scene becomes more mainstream, more money is generated from it and new talent is not shunned and shy’d away from the scene by it being a not so popular path for the creator to take. Sci-fi sometimes can become so hardcore with regards to its fans that I think new talent can get put off by the shear passion that the audience has for the field.
Anyway that’s my rather abstract and not so very remarkable view your question heh.
Regards to all.
Hyperion
It seems to me, Aslan, that the general public still views the two as separate but related genres--otherwise, we would have adopted a single term and merged the two more fully. Publishers still distinguish between the two--and the trend in bookstores lately has been to increasingly separate the genres into two side-by-side sections--mostly because there are more sci fi books being published or re-published.
The "speculative fiction" term is fairly recent--and used mostly by writers. The fact that the two genres require a certain flight of the mind gives them their similarity--but I still believe that sci fi has a particular bent that distinguishes it clearly from fantasy.
I do agree that there is some blurring of the lines in works such as Star Wars. I remember clearly the labeling of the film as a "space opera"--which seemed quite accurate. It may be that many current sci fi works use technology only as a backdrop to tell romanticized stories about exiles and explorers in space, but the fact that the works contain spaceships and are placed in the future will cause most people to label it as sci fi. They're clearly still making the assumption that these are two genres. After all, no one has called LOTR sci fi.
As for whether mainstreaming detracts or adds to the genres...
Seems to me that a good book is a good book, regardless of the popularity of its genre. I've been a fan of sci fi and fantasy through periods when it was very difficult to find in mainstreman bookstores--and I've stayed a fan through the proliferation of works, many of which are pretty poorly written.
There's good news and bad news with popularity. More works reach the market--more books to read and more opportunities for writers. You may have to wade through murky waters, to reach the deeper pools--but I find I do learn from poor writing--the pitfalls are made apparent.
More important than the satisfying of my personal hunger for great works--is the fact that the ideas within the best books are reaching more people. Some of the great minds of our century have written sci fi and fantasy--and their thoughts delve into some of the most important questions facing our society--issues such as censorship, the role of government in our lives, freedom, the role of the individual within great and inhumane wars, the costs and benefits of technology, the significance or insignificance of human life. If more people are reading such books, then I for one am glad.
| Posted By: Sagethai Feb 13, 2003 - 12:45 pm | | I always used to find it irritating that bookstores wouldn't seperate the two genres, but that has passed. Now I find that I enjoy the conjoining of the two related genres. It could be that it is because both are similar in the sense that neither are limited by the realities of a present-day-real-world-setting, which allows for considerable plot variation and imginative endevours. However, they are in soe cases distinctly different. I would not compare Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy with Tolkien. But I also find that the more I read of the tow genres, the more they relate. A good example is China Mielville, who mixes fantasy with fantastic science. Or The Impossible Bird (can't remember author now) where matrix realities are combined with fanciful idea of humming birds. The mroe reading through the fgenres you do the better able you are at noticing where along the spectrum the novels fit, and the more able you are to find what you are in the mood for in the future.
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